DM and breeding. - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by jettasmom on 15 September 2020 - 14:09

I'm wondering if anyone would breed to a male that is DM high risk? I know if done it needs to be with a DM clear female if it was to take place. 


by rakeshausky on 15 September 2020 - 14:09

The DM At Risk dogs are just simply and quite literally "at risk" for developing the disease. It doesn't automatically mean that they either have DM or even will get DM. Plus, let's not forget to mention that the current DM test isn't designed for the same Degenerative Myelopathy that affects the German Shepherd breed. This should be a tool and not the end all be all. Especially if the male is an amazing specimen of the breed in every other sense, I wouldn't be putting all of my faith into a test that may or may not be accurate at this time. Plus, if you do breed said DM At Risk male to a DM Clear female, all puppies will only be DM Carriers. Most dogs that would have developed Degenerative Myelopathy end up dying before they ever show any symptoms of it, because it hits them in old age. So, if a dog could live a full and healthy life and is an excellent example of the breed and just so happens to be DM At Risk and I have a stellar female who is DM Clear that would be a good match for him, I wouldn't NOT breed to him simply because of one test result. There would be a lot more research into that particular male and what he has produced, his siblings have produced, his parents have produced, all of their testing results, and their accomplishments. Don't base a breeding decision based off of one controversial test.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 15 September 2020 - 14:09

This is my personal opinion. At Risk or Affected I would only breed if the dog is exceptional. I wouldn't kick any dog out of the genepool but the dog has to be exceptional for me to breed an at risk or even an affected dog.

by jettasmom on 15 September 2020 - 15:09

I agree with the DM test being used as a tool but not a complete right off. Heck some top males have been used for breeding that have bad elbows and have produced bad elbows on offsprings. Same goes for hips.

I have yet to see if the DM test is accurate since the testing is still relatively new so can’t say a DM high risk dog will get DM.

Yes, most die before DM will affect said dog but like 1st poster stated breeding to a DM female will produce carriers which is better IMO then breeding to a dog with bad hips and elbows.

I believe Germany does not test for DM but lots still breed to them.

by jettasmom on 15 September 2020 - 15:09

@BE. What is exceptional to you?

by hexe on 16 September 2020 - 02:09

The SV doesn't require DM testing, but in recent years a lot more European breeders are doing the DNA assessment nonetheless.


by Hundmutter on 16 September 2020 - 02:09

That's right Hexe, and I saw something from the SV quite recently that referred to that fact - I think maybe the SV is coming around to the idea that it is better to test wherever available - even when the validity / applicability of tests is arguable, - than not to test at all. That is certainly a shift from all the years of denial of health problems.

by duke1965 on 16 September 2020 - 08:09

no problem at all, results of breeding a positiv to a clear one, can be that same as breeding a carrier to clear, both will produce carriers at worst case,

DM can be tested for and bred out in one or two generations, throwing out genes to breed "clean "on paper is bad for genepool, we are in bad enough shape as it is with breeding happy/click/cooky and high prey only, so no need to throw out more stuff for stupid reasons

by jettasmom on 16 September 2020 - 10:09

I could not agree more duke. The GSD is not the same as it once was. Too many breeding to big names just to sell pups, sacrificing the hardness, nerves, aloofness just to mention a few.

There are great examples of what a GSD should be out there but no one considers breeding because they are not owned by a big name owner or kennel.

I would love to see what my male can produce being the quality he is and has shown on and off the field. To me and others who have seen him on and off the field say he a perfect example of what a GSD should be.  May never see it but you never know. Besides I’m a nobody in the dog sport world. Maybe in the future looking for the right female to add to our house maybe the only option but I'm not a breeder and too many pups out there already. 

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 16 September 2020 - 13:09

Exceptional is exceptional. I don't tend to breed to dogs that I don't personally know. I want to see the good, the bad and the ugly and I hold dogs back for quite some time before I sell them to see what I actually get and/or sell them into homes where they are close by. And exceptional doesn't mean "one size fits all". Dogs are individuals and have their own strengths and weaknesses. Maybe one dog is exceptional for his incredible temperament. A temperament that's basically what people usually see in movies and humanize to the point of a Disney character. Another exceptional could be resilience. A dog that is so incredibly resilient he overcomes every form of pressure. Exceptional intelligence and handler orientation/bidability that results in seizure alert dogs. Dogs known for their exceptional hunt drive etc. As long as the dog is overall a normal dog but possesses something that I really like and that makes the dog stand out to me (personally), I'd breed to the dog with the right male/female.

I have a much different outlock on the German Shepherd than a lot of people. I'm not breeding to produce "exceptional" or "monsters" or "the next one hit wonder". I breed for balance, normal dogs, dogs everyone can have fun with and that can hit the field and/or live in the family and where people are like "That's the best dog we've ever lived with." Family dogs have to be resilient. Probably the most resiliient of them all, especially with what they are asked to endure in this time and age.

Everyone measures success differently. That being said, if I have three dogs I really like, one clear, one carrier, one at risk/affected and all three have a pedigree that matches. I'm likely going to the clear or carrier rather than the at risk dog.


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