Questions, Long winded but I appreciate any input from the GSD experts on here - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by NatureDragon on 05 July 2020 - 21:07

I finally got to take my puppy finally to an obedience class (private one on one) now that things are opening back up.
I went only for the purpose of obedience. I walked inside with my dog on her leash, the instructor asked me to let go of her leash, so I did and she went to greet him by jumping up on the counter because he was behind it. He smacked her on the head for jumping up on the counter. Then she tried to lick his hand (she kind of mouths too with her teeth but never bites) when she gets excited, and he hit her on her face. I don't like being licked excessively by dogs either, so I don't blame him for not wanting her to do it. Then she just started exploring around the back of the office on her own, and eventually returned to me. He then asked me about her bloodlines, and I told him working line gsd but wasn't famiilar with all of the dogs in it. So he looked up her pedigree and told me that it was not very impressive and that Bomber(her grandsire) is from showlines. The only dog he had anything good to say about in her pedigree was Tom van't Leefdaalhof. So is my dog really from (half) showlines?
Anyway, i didn't go to the class to have her bloodlines evaluated. Just wondering if anyone who knows gsd's well here can take a look at her pedigree and tell me what exactly her bloodlines are. I would appreciate it.
Also is it normal to correct dog behavior by hitting them on the head or face? It's almost like he wanted to intimidate her as he was seeming to want to make her feel uncomfortable throughout the lesson. But then I'm not a trainer either so I could be assessing it wrong. I want her to learn the focused healing, and he was showing me how to do it by using a pinch collar and correcting her when she was anywhere but right next to me and looking up at me, and then praising her at that time. It sort of reminded me of the kholer method which I read the book some years back but never liked it or used it. He also recommended that I keep a pinch collar and drag line on her at all times except when she is sleeping or in her kennel and no one is home with her. He said she was anxious and could tell that she had 'czech' lines by how she acted. The instructor is also an ipo judge and trainer who has worked with police dogs as well, has his own ipo club and has successfully trained many dogs, so his methods must work. I just didn't think trainers were using such what seem to me to be harsh methods on a young dog. Do you folks who train GSD's correct them by hiitting them on the face and head? On the good side, she is listening to me better and she definitely is not licking nearly as much. She also was just coming into her first heat cycle. Can that affect the female's behavior at all?

by jettasmom on 05 July 2020 - 21:07

I would never let anyone hit my puppy period. After the first smack I would have went off on him and take my puppy and leave. No person has any right to hit a puppy period. He sounds like an idiot.


by Mindhunt on 05 July 2020 - 21:07

The second that "trainer" (and I use the term loosely here) struck my dog, I would have been out the effing door never to return.  YOU DON'T HIT A PUPPY IN THE FACE WITH YOUR HAND EVER.  Hands are for loving not hurting.  You don't ever hit a puppy when you first meet them, good grief what an a**hat.  Trust your gut, you are questioning the trainer quality and I think you have answered your own question.  Just because someone is an IPO judge or has their own kennel or training facility, just because they "work with police dogs" does not mean they know what the eff they are doing.  I have seen far too many poorly trained dogs over the decades I have been working with dogs.  I have come up on trainers who are all about their ego which this "trainer" wanna be is.  I am sorry, anytime someone hurts a dog to prove a point, especially a puppy and then proceeds to denigrate and devalue my dog, I am wondering what they are compensating for.  Find another trainer who doesn't have such a fragile ego he needs to smack a puppy a few times upon first meeting it to make it afraid of him.  I can't emphasize enough to run, not walk, run as far away from this jerk as possible and disregard everything he has told you.  Find a trainer who uses current evidenced based training that does not involve the old "dominance" methods. 

Sorry for the rant, I just got into it with a friend who is listening to some trainer who breeds dogs and works with that area's police dogs, his dogs from his kennel are so over the top drivey that he brags they need two shock collars on full power for owner control.  I have also seen some of his dogs, they are bite happy and unpredictable under high stress and are muzzled most of the time when working a track or NOT going after a bad guy for the safety of the handler and general public. She got one of his puppies and right away at 12 weeks put a shock collar on it.  The dog has become aggressive and turns on trainers, decoys, and her, hence a second shock collar on an 18-month-old dog. 

Trust your gut and find a trainer who is more in line with your ideas and that you are ok with.  Don't allow anyone to strike your dog at the very first meeting.

by NatureDragon on 05 July 2020 - 22:07

Thank you so far for the input. I don't want to go to petsmart for obedience classes, but hopefully I can find a place that doesn't hit dogs in the head and face. My puppy definitely needs obedience. Perhaps I should just watch Robert Cabral videos or somerhing and do it myself at home.

by djp on 06 July 2020 - 00:07

There are no showlines in that pedigree you posted. I agree with the posts above no need for him to be smacking your dog. Where are you located? Maybe one of the members can give you a recommendation. There are a lot of good videos that can help you teach your pups.


by Koots on 06 July 2020 - 01:07

OMG, Run fast and far from that place. Find a dog sport club in your area, and take her there.

Ivan Balabanov & Micheal Ellis also have good video tutorials.

by NatureDragon on 06 July 2020 - 01:07

The problem with the local USCA club is that the trainer I went to is the most popular in my area and also an IPO judge.
PSA looks super fun, not sure how my dog would do in it, but worth a try if the local club is active.
I'll just find an AKC type obedience class if I have to, it's better than petsmart and better than nothing.
Thank you for the other two trainer names for training videos, thank you so much.


by Sunsilver on 06 July 2020 - 02:07

Bomber is a SHOWLINE?? ROFLOL!!  The only reason I can see why he might think that is because Bomber is koered and has a V rating for conformation. That does NOT make a GSD a showline, however!

RUN AWAY!! This guy is an idiot!

Hopefully, you can find a trainer that's better than this guy, and better than Petsmart. Petsmart trainers are purely positive, and aren't allowed to correct dogs. Strong dogs like German shepherds DO need to be told 'no' now and then, but the emphasis for correct training should be on reward, not punishment, and appropriate punishments do not include hitting a pup in the face! 

by NatureDragon on 06 July 2020 - 02:07

Sunsliver, even if my girl was showline, I don't understand why he would talk like it's a bad thing. I don't know why a person with a high position in the german shepherd dog club would put down showlines, it doesn't make sense. Don't they judge the european showline conformation dogs too?
Besides, I only took her to him for a private obedience class, not conformation, not to evaluate her bloodlines, not for protection or anything else, just obedience.


by Hundmutter on 06 July 2020 - 03:07

Oh. My. God. I would do more than run fast out his door, I'd be complaining to USCA nationally !

The 'reason', Nature Dragon, I suspect, that this 'trainer' (using the term very loosely) would be so against Show bloodlines would be that in his obvious ignorance he has observed the arguments about W/L v. S/L that go on, on sites like this one, and developed this into a pure prejudice; because he does not have enough breed or breeding experience of his own. And no, I don't care if the man has produced a 1,000 of his own puppies, he clearly knows NOTHING. And presumably he has reached his position because he has b.s.'d about that, just like he b.s. the public about his value as a trainer. JMHO

Of course you don't whack puppies around the face. Of course you don't use harsh methods with a new dog from the get-go; you school the pups and only if they start to become really hard to handle do you even consider using any aversive methods. (See current thred on KNPV for a wide discussion on the use of forcible corrections).

Sunsilver's post is 100% correct.

And yes, you may notice some differences in behaviour / temperament when a bitch pup enters her first season; these may  or may not be permanent changes.


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