Sven v Grafental - Page 1

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Dawn G. Bonome

by Dawn G. Bonome on 17 August 2019 - 12:08

Was there ever a problem with the dog Sven v Grafental as I saw an ad listed for a a working line litter stating free of Sven Lines.
What is the history of Sven?

How can I learn more about Working Lines and how to research them more? I bought an older puppy and I really love his food, and ball drive!!

I always owned GERMAN Shepherd Show Lines, but now I am a convert to Working Line dog 🐶



by TIG on 17 August 2019 - 16:08

Look above your post and click on the search forums link. Search not only Sven but Boban (a complete nutcase dangerous dog. Sven son).

You will find a number of posts for and against Sven and Boban and DDR dogs in general ( also search DDR)

For the most part you will find either those who have drunk the kool aid and believe all the myths of the fake " DDR" dogs and refuse to acknowledge known problems such as hips and nerves or those who absolutely despise these dogs.

I am somewhat in the middle. Been around long enough that actually knew a couple of real DDR dogs that came over BEFORE  the wall went down. There were and are issues (as with all dogs) that need to be acknowledged.  Most old timers will tell you best used as a spice only. Try to grab what you need/ want and get out.

I am of the opinion that is what called DDR today (hello how many DECADES since the wall came down) is what I call fake DDR. As what also happened in Czechoslovakia later , wall down , world comes in offering what looks like boatloads of money - dogs get sold - sold out. Then the realization sets in that oh sh*t we sold our best dogs if not all our dogs, what do we have to sell now ($ tends to be addictive and it was a hard life in the Eastern block)). So a process starts to provide alternatives, replacements etc. How successful that is / was brings us back to those divided opinions mentioned above.

Again so you know where I come from. I am not a fan and to be honest do not consider the current batch of DDR true working stock. Great beliver proof in the pudding. For all the hype not a lot of titles out there and the few are mostly at a one level. Tho apparently make great UKC breed conformation dogs 😘.

Let the games begin.

Dawn G. Bonome

by Dawn G. Bonome on 17 August 2019 - 18:08

I believe that everyone has a right to their opinion, and a very good trainer once told me that A GOOD DOG IS A GOOD DOG....PERIOD!
It’s what breeders breed and bring into the breeding. They knew the problem but bred anyway. GERMAN SHEPHERDS are victims of breeders greed, and it continues today.


Entwerfer Haus

by Entwerfer Haus on 17 August 2019 - 20:08

Sven is spread far and wide. I had his grandson. Superb dog and was laid to rest 1 year today.

NOT EVERY DOG PRODUCED IN A LITTER IS BREED WORTHY. Therein lies the problem. People breed a dog and consider all their pups breed worthy. Then, that pup is put with an even more subpar dog and bred. None are worked and now, you have 2+ generations of non proven dogs. Hence the snowball effect.

Many, many US breeders have several generations of untitled dogs and breed them. Just look at the classifieds here.

The dogs that are titled are usually bought that way or sent off to get titles, then brought back and put in kennels to breed.

Real working dogs, not worked, will release their energy and in the wrong hands or penned up will only add to the problem.

That's just one scenario.

I'm not stating that may or may not have been the issue. Some 'breeders' prefer to steer clear.  I had one 'breeder' tell me "Sven and Tino free" and she turned out to be a real piece of work.


Research the breed, all the way back to the foundations lines.  Learning the history is the best first steps.


by TIG on 17 August 2019 - 21:08

Dawn agreed - a good dog is a good dog - Providing the truth of that has some independent third party verification otherwise you are just dealing in kennel blindness.

If a dog is truly good you are proud of him and want to show him off not hide his talent under a bush.

Why so pissy? You asked re Sven - I gave you the tools to find out more plus I was clear about my own prejudices.

So who's this older "working" dog you got. Can you post the pedigree? What are you hoping to do with him or her? Btw imho there are still a few hi-line dogs that are also good working dogs so I don't necessarily think it's  all or none.

Also in my humble opinion the two best ways to learn about working dogs are 1. Work dogs and watch dogs being worked. Equally important listen to the dogs being worked. Are they responding from a place of strength or fear ( thin nerves). You can hear it in the voice . Don't just show up to work yours. Watch everyone and help when you can. How a dog works is as much about his partner as it is about the dog but you learn those kind of things by watching & listening. 

2. Go to as many working trials as you can and not just Schutzhund either  -Herding, obedience, scent work, tracking etc irregardless of who the authority putting it on - akc, ukc, asca, ahba . When you see a dog you particularly like or dislike ask about the breeding. Talk to old timers who knew the dogs in the pedigrees you are reading. 

IE learning about working lines is not just reading about them. Its living with them, training them and yes competing with them.


by jdmhb21 on 17 August 2019 - 23:08

I have a Grandson, stud of Sven v Grafental. He's absolutely amazing, all around dog. Wonderful with my children, a fierce protector, an athlete, high work drive, protective instincts, wonderful off switch, beautiful coloring, large, large head, great companion ect. Thanks to the Breeders!

Dawn G. Bonome

by Dawn G. Bonome on 18 August 2019 - 01:08

Did not mean to sound pissy. My apologies if I did. You did answer my question about Sven.

The parents of my pup are..

Brian de Marchamalo/Vargas Letkro Teil and they are on the Pedigree Database.
My dog is Vargas Letkro Vito. He was already named when I got him, and I kept the name.
I got the dog that I wanted, already housebroken, and had some OB on him already.

I will be doing OBEDIENCE and Nosework with him.

I lost 2 dogs within 26 hrs of each other in December, and in the grand scheme of things, I just want to have fun and enjoy him. Life is so short for dogs.

I do have a question.. are people tacking their dogs stomachs for bloat?

Do Working lines mature more slowly body wise?

Dawn B.

Dawn G. Bonome

by Dawn G. Bonome on 18 August 2019 - 01:08

Oh...I am not a breeder, and I was not knocking all breeders. The pups lives are in their hands when they pick a breeding partner. Either a well bred mentally and physically fit dog or dogs that eventually get euthanized due to over the top drives sold to the wrong people.

Thanks again for the input.

by Gustav on 18 August 2019 - 11:08

The DDR dogs which were available when the curtain first came down, ( lines to Held, Artus, Zorro, Barutherland, Lord) were much different from the supposed DDR dogs( Sven, Tino, ) of today. The latter dogs were much harder, and had high fight’s DDR dogs are more cosmetic and mellowed though they make great family dogs and passive sport dogs. This is general statement, of course there are exceptions, but they are just that....exceptions.


by Hundmutter on 18 August 2019 - 14:08

Dawn re the bloat question: its fairly standard practise over here (UK) to put a tack in while operating to save a Bloat (GD&V) case - I've had two that happened with. Means its much less likely to twist again. At one time I referred to this and some members mentioned Police etc in the US who were getting tacks put in prophalactically - i.e. as a preventative. But I can't recall if they named States / Counties, or Services, where this was happening; I believe it was not everywhere. Or if there were particular conditions, like the dog needing other abdominal surgery before they would open it up to do a tack. Not seen any review of how successful this has been assessed, either. Would be curious to hear.


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