Show gait not Natural - Page 1

This question is meant for intelligent knowledgable GSD people. Most know here that I have alot of experience with working line dogs. I was watching showdogs gaiting and while I admit some of them look very sharp almost floating across the ground I noticed some of them seem to have exceeded what is a natural looking movement and while extremenly far-reaching looks un-natural or pecuilar movement to me. My question is has ideal reach in the gait been exceeded?

You are correct in your assessment. What are seeing is the so-called "flying trot" so beloved in the show ring. The dog appears to fly around the ring covering much ground with every step. However, this is not natural and is a result of over-angulation in the rear. Most AKC show GSD's are horribly over-angulated. "A dog in front and a frog in rear." Follow this link to find some excellent articles written on GSD structure from the different types that have developed within the breed. The articles have many quality illustrations and goes into detail to explain the mechanics of movement and why poor angles compromise a dog's ability to move naturally. http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/Index_Page/Index_Page.htm Once you've read the articles, I suggest you come back to the site and start flipping through pictures of dogs. You will see them with new eyes, and will start to notice dogs with roached backs, over-angulation, small heads, narrow fronts, etc that you might not have noticed before. Yvette

Babe What you are trying say may be true? Proofread? What you HAVE said is WRONG! The "flying trot" is what all correct GSD should be able to do. All 4 feet off the ground at the SAME time---- dog "in suspension" at a fast trot---- NOT a full gallop. Truth is over length, over angulated GSD can NOT accomplish. I don't care if they are American SHOW Lines, or any other line. Every correct GSD should "single track". MANY can not, or do not, because they are NOT correct in front or rear. All of the folks that think "conformation" only matters in the ring don't have a clue. Gosh--- Don't suppose when someone mentions "total dog" they just might have something other than agrression, bite, and drive in mind? Ranger I think you are referring to that "churning" motion when the overangulated rear is obviously capable of more than the front when the chest has been bred off to APPEAR more balanced. A man and a large "busted" woman stand side by side stretching their arms out. The man's "apparent" reach will be exagerrated because you see more arm. No offence meant girls!! Think about it! Morgan

Linda Shaw's work has been published in the U.S.c.A. magazine and I am glad to see it available on the web. Her excellent descriptions and graphic illustrations furnish a lot of good examples that allow one to see what constitutes proper skeletal geometry. Good reading, Bob-O

Morgan It was the combination of the "churning" and also the front feet seemed to almost point upwards at the front feet extended outwards. I am not insulting the dogs just curious Is this considered an ideal gait in the show ring?

PS everyone I am trying to learn something here so please don't start fighting and get everyone chasing rabbits! thanks

DesertRangers, here's an interview that may help answer your questions. Jimmy Moses is one of the top professional handlers in the country, and specializes in Shepherds. He handles both Manhattan, who went BIS at Westminister, and Dallas, the top modern-day American sire. Moses confesses (and I rejoice to hear this!) that the extreme dogs of the 1970's were a mistake. Here's the link: http://www.thedogplace.org/Handlers/Moses_Interview.htm

Also, though you see the front feet being lifted up quite high in show ring dogs, it is NOT supposed to be acceptable. The breed standard calls for there to be no wasted motion in the gait, as this is supposed to be a working dog, not a hackney horse!

Point taken, DesertRangers. The "flying trot" is a very natural gait for the GSD, as it is a trotter-not a runner. I agree about the show-line examples of the GSD requiring seemingly extreme reach (I call it "goosestepping") with the front legs and paddling (churning, I think you call it) with the rear feet because of the extreme angulation of the hocks to achieve the speed required for a proper trot where all four (4) feet are off the ground for a split second. The Am-bred GSD show-line is developed to the end that the motionless back is coupled with the ability to cover the most ground with the fewest steps. A lot of wasted motion just to achieve this effect, in my opinion. The Euro show-line has a different body type, but again the extreme rear angulation causes wasted motion and the back of many dogs is not very stiff, as it cannot be as it must absorb the shock from the uneven motion of the front legs vs. the rear legs. The anatomy of many show-line dogs is not correct per the F.C.I. standard. The proper anatomy of the GSD is very difficult for many to ascertain, and that is why I like the illustrations that were done by Linda Shaw. I myself have my own "standard" from the time of my childhood and the dogs that were near me in those days. Bob-O

Does anybody know of any video links that show the correct gaits? I would love to see some, both correct and incorrect for comparison.