Czech GSD history - Page 1

I was speaking with a work colleague about GSD's; he has a West working line X Czech GSD a KNPV Malinois and a KNPV Dutch Herder. He told me that he had heard from a breeder of Czech GSD's that Czech GSD breeders began to add Malinois in to the mix to create a more harder GSD and that this can be found in pedigrees about 12 generations back.

Is this true or just one of those rumours?

Whenever there are no DNA tests mandatory ( and they aren't in most countries ) everything is possible, and in case the breeder in question claims to breed according to the GSD breed standard I call it fraud.

" Harder ?" or just not able to think, with over the top drives ?

In case someone breeds x-whatever crosses I don't care ( and I am sure a lot of people do - it's absolutely common in Belgium and the Netherlands- but in these countries those dogs are called crosses=no pedigrees) as long as the breeder in question does not falsify the pedigree. There certainly is a niche for those dogs, but cheating about the real parentage is a no-go for me.

Susie, I agree a dog x with another of a different breed is a cross and not a pedigree.

From what he was saying is that the Malinois was added in the early development of all Czech GSD's but it is no longer done. He was told that Malinois DNA can be found in all Czech GSD's more than 12 generations back.

I do hope this is not true as they would then be considered a cross breed as you rightfully pointed out.

When you come right down to it, all breeds are cross breeds as they were all created by breeding one dog with another dog 10 years, 100 years or 1000 years ago.

@Fantom76
Yes all dogs share a common ancestor but what my work colleague had been told is that a pure bred Malinois was crossed with a pure bred GSD to develope the Czech GSD.
If this was done 12 generations back, the Malinois blood would still be present in todays Czech GSD.

So if true then why mess with the genetics of an already perfect breed?

I think the claim in the original post, about Malis being introduced into the Czech bred GSDs, is utter BS.

Making such a claim on a public forum, about some such systematic approach of introducing Mali blood into GSDs, without any evidence to back up the claim, is intended to malign the superb Czech lines via innuendo. IMHO.

In one of the largest and most prominent kennels in the Czech republic, I do know of an incident where a super-performing dog was bought in as a potential stud, with a specific line-breeding behind him. After DNA testing was done on the potential stud, its parentage (on the sire's side) was found to be incorrect, and the dog (superb dog in every sense of the word, from the performance he was phenotypically displaying) was given away to the gardener as his housedog, since the dog certainly could not be used by the kennel as a stud.

Those people are crazy about their GSDs and are passionate about their dogs to a fault. So when somebody talks about systematically introducing Mali blood into GSDs there, with nothing to back up such innuendo, it does not meet the "smell test" for me.

@aaykay.
Please do not think that I was saying that the Malinois was added to the Czech GSD. I was told this by a colleague and posted my concern on a public forum to ask if anybody had heard about this.
I certainly have nothing against the Czech GSD and I have been considering purchasing one in the future.
So I'm asking on a forum where hopefully dedicated Czech GSD breeders or owners can answer this query for me.

Yes smells BS to me also.

My GSD is Czech working lines. I went way back before purchasing (checking for health and temperament information/indicators and ensure I was getting what was represented and what I needed/wanted—thank you PDB and the breeder). No Mal(s). Yes, she (my GSD) is nuts… so was another GSD I had that wasn’t Czech working lines. And the Siberian Huskies... No Mal in any of them.

Six lines of Czech GSD. The founding dogs are known and records were kept, so the progeny can be traced (or the lineage from the dog back).

Given the origins of Czech GSD, Pohranicni Straze (Czech Border Patrol), and the strict guidelines and records, I say the rumor is BS.
 

Not saying records were perfect or even truthful, but this statement is akin to "Must be part Chow if it has blue on its tongue" LOL

Ah, good to know it is a BS rumor. It would be interesting to find out why my work colleague thinks this; I think he must have got his wires crossed somewhere?

I wonder if he was told of some people crossing a Czech with a Mali and thought that there was Mali in the Czech GSD lineage?