DM through lineage - Page 1

Hey everyone. I'm relatively new to the GSD world and have been trying to educate myself on DM.

I'm convinced that the current OFA test is not adequate to determine if a dog has or will develop DM, but I'm wondering about looking at a dogs pedigree to help determine this. I've seen some adds for dogs where the pups are "DM free by lineage"; can you predict DM by looking at the parents, grandparents, or further back?

What they are referring to is that the Dam and Sire are clear.  After that it makes no difference.

Thanks, I guess that means that the Sire & Dam were tested clear for DM.

Is there a certain age when DM will start to show? I'm trying to figure out if DM can be ruled out if Sire & Dam are 5 and show no signs of DM, for example.

Generally it's very late onset. 8+ on average. It's why even at risk dogs (carry both copies of the gene) are still only showing the disease at about a 10% rate. Most don't ever come down with symptoms because of how late they present themselves so that by the time they would present the dog has passed from something else. There are some dogs that get it early (before 5), but those are extremely rare cases.

You also can't go off the parents because if both are carriers, there is a 25% chance the puppy will be at risk. So carriers, who won't present symptoms, could still make a puppy that has DM.

Ok, thanks for the input!

DM is a different than what is found by OFAs.  OFAs deal with hip and elbow joints, how loose or tight and well aligned they are.  DM is a neurological disorder where there is a demyelination of the spinal cord.  The spinal cord looses it's protective sheath that helps with nerve conduction.  It starts at the tip of the spinal cord and works its way up the spine toward the head.  Think Lou Gehrigs or MS.  Eventually the dogs lose the ability to work their back legs, then bladder and bowel, and finally their diaphragm and slowly suffocate.  My Loki had a particularly aggressive version of DM and from diagnosis to euthanizing was a few years.  He never really lost control of bladder and bowels, only one accident but the night he started using his accessory muscles to breathe when he slept was it, we made the decision the next day.  My friend waited too long and her dog began to suffocate.  It is a horrible disease.  DM free as was mentioned in a previous post is that the parents were tested and found to either be a carrier or free of the gene.  There is controversy on the reliability of the test in some circles but I tend to go with DM free on both parents having lost a dog once to the disease.  Hope this helps.......

Thanks Mindhunt. Sorry for your loss.

OFA does lots of different tests, including hips/elbows & DM. That's the test that's controversial; so much so that the OFA had to add some qualifying statements in their explanation of test results (https://www.ofa.org/dnatesting/dmexplanation.html).

Sure wish we knew more about it.

COGSD, I understand your concern. I lost a GSD to DM and vowed that I would never lose another to this horrible disease. I scoured the internet, the USA, and EU looking specifically for a breeder that screened for DM, Hips, knees, and any other problem that might affect the breed. It is my understanding that a dog will only be affected by DM if both parents carry the gene. So screening, while not perfect, will give the breeder an idea if their dogs have this issue. Thankfully, most, if not all of the dogs coming from the Czech Repulic, are DM Free. They are from a different stock. And this is why a lot of German breeders are using the Czech bloodlines to strengthen their own GSD lines.

As I was saying. I found a breeder in the U.S. that I really like. She is in North Carolina and her prices are reasonable. When I get ready to get my next dog she is the one I will go with because I cannot handle the pain of watching another dog suffer at the hands of DM. Her name is Sandra Weiland and her kennel is Vom Weiland. She is the only breeder in the states that spends the extra money on DM testing. And she's not breeding a franken shepherd. Her dogs are big boned but normal sized shepherds with straight backs.

GSDFanboy, if this is a real post (kind of sounds like a sales pitch), holy cow do you need to check your facts. Not to pick on you, but this is dangerous misinformation.

Yikes.

First, there are PLENTY of dogs from CZ who test carrier or A/A. PLENTY!!!! I'm not sure where you got the idea of the reason for using Czech dogs but I assure you, it has zilch to do with DM. Any breeder telling you otherwise is more novice than you are- run far, run fast!

Perhaps you're thinking of "pure" East German dogs? I have yet to see a so-called "DDR" dog test with any mutation of the SOD1 gene. Doesn't mean none have or none will, but no one I've spoken with has ever seen one.

"She's (Sandra Weiland) the only breeder that spends the extra money on DM testing." WHAT?! Who told you this? Sandra Weiland? That is waaaaay off the mark. Sounds like you misunderstood, or someone was less than honest with you.

The test is FAR from foolproof. Some feel it's so far off that it's not even worth it. I don't judge either way. I do test, but I certainly don't judge someone who doesn't given the severe lack of science behind it (as it pertains to our breed; it's a good test in other breeds). Having said that, MANY breeders test for it.

Agree Jenni.
I know of many breeders who test for DM. Vom Weiland IS NOT the only one! That's crazy anyone would remotely even think that.
Again, misinformation can be very dangerous.