@ Duke interessant artikel - Page 1

Interessant artikel uit de politiehond moet je ff naar beneden scrollen naar interview met honden geleider Gerard ter Horst .Vooral het uitsluitend aanleren van positieve methodes brengt problemen in de praktijk blijkt uit evaluatie...

http://www.knpv.nl/files/home-page-knpv/2016/politiehond-2016-01-zalsmanweb.pdf

BM
Do you have this article in English?

Its not just one article, its a magazine. LOL  The interview runs from p 10.
Can't you get it translated, Mith ? Google is your friend !

BM Its nice they have such a well presented publication, though they clearly get a lot of help from Royal Canin ! Some nice photos - & I particularly liked the piece on p.30 about the Bouvier.

The van Horst piece itself ? Have not yet got it translated/read all of it, but a glance through tells me it is much the same as this sort of interview with chiefs of Dog Sections anywhere usually goes, excepting the bit about his district having been the first to specifically try out KNPV dogs as Police Dogs. On which he does not yet unfortunately have complete conclusions. Funny, that - the way those sport dogs are bigged up on here for their PD worth & abilities, you would get the impression the Dutch police had used nothing but, for decades.

BM is referring to the part where this man states that dogs trained on modern positive ways more often fail when put on the street for real work

so modern training ways allow softer and weaker dogs to perform perfect in sport programs but when tested outside program they fail,

this is something said by people like me (supplieer of policedogs) people like in interview ( buying and testing for police) Pjer wahlstrom(runs a policedog breedingprogram ) and people like Helmut raiser etc

still allways some people will debate this, see the magic wand topic and others

I don't think many people that own gsd are training them to police dogs.

Duke why the fuk would the majority of gsd owners want to beat the shit out of their dog, hang them, put them into survival mode 3 nights a week at training and send the fails to the incinerator so you can have an easy job middle-manning dogs for profit.

Do you even sense bro?

most people who own GSD dont title as well, but that is not the discussion now is it

What is the discussion about?

 

Kinda hard when the OP writes in dutch when the default language here evidenced by about every post on every thread is English.

@ Mithuna its a article from the KNPV police dog magazin maybe you can translate it with google translate. I  don,t know if the translation will match 100 percent correctly

@ Duke this one of the reason why oldschool knpv handlers sceptical about too much positive training tools/ methods, Too much positive training create softer dogs useless for
police street dogs they need some hardness and resistance.

@ VK the goal for most KNPV dogs is not create sportdogs but most of them are working with the
street police departments worldwide.

Its better to hear opinion from real  police dog K9 trainers  who working with  them for real   and evaluate them, than sport people who never worked with this dogs on  the street IMO. 

duke,
you speak typical of broker make money off dog. any dog. so make story about super dog with no title parent is obvious advantage to wallet. to make agenda and propaganda, you take raiser and wahlström comment out of context to make things suit for yourself. raiser very specific say that problem is use training techniques to secure dog to take (already soft) stick hits, and he use mainly malinois as example, opposed to than have dog like german shepherd bred well to not only take stick hit but make him stronger with hits as result of his dna. and use of motivation came into discussion as high drive, low threshold dog have not much inhibition so clicker work well. he also say he use clicker very much but not to make fake dog for take stick hits.

pierre say same (and also say to think to add high level ipo class (4) for sport so separate test and evaluation for sport and breeding but use same path). problem both point to is that thin nerve, high drive dog not good take pressure make title and use for breeding and since sport much popular, more dog like that around and use by stupid and lazy breeders want to make fast profit. well, that breeder choice and buyer choice for breeder.

of course, if you look at number of good breeder make good choice and number of dog needed for work, especially after 9/11, there is big gap. so broker and resale/contract trainer must find dog from street or where ever and make it work so it can sell and spin story to support price. that is ok for broker and maybe customer. but it not invalidate testing and evaluation system and if you look at rsv2000 and pierre's swedish military breeding (yes, duke, is swedish army progam breeding dogs not police program) and evaluation program, is use same system not only for basis but more. pierre see that problem is not enough good breeder so make own program but continue with much of traditional gsd breed selection test and program. he make the opposite of you and create good dog from title with title not for export and fat wallet but reliable work make own country safe.

look at pierre's private breeding for wallander x catinka litter: catinka ipo 3 not untitled dog from untitled generations, wallander have ipo titles, fh title, and bsl title, and title in previous generations. why pierre do that if he say all things you say he do? is because he not say any such thing. no, he do what good breeder do with good system. but you make knowing choice to misrepresent truth to make wag the dog fairytail for making your wallet fat.

No VK, a titled dog today doesnot equal a titled dog 10 or 20 or 30 years ago so one has to look past titles to see if a dog is breedworthy or even suitable for other work than sport

@ BM luckily most KNPV trainers are old skool trainers,