Training/competing direction - Page 1

Hi everyone,

Just so we're clear; let me state I'm a newbie. My male GSD is about 9 months old now and although I've owned many dogs in my life, this is the first dog that I've been serious about training; and I love it! As a newbie I know my questions might not be formulated the right way (from a lack of knowledge), so I'll ask for your understanding up front.

I'm at a point where I'm looking for direction in where to go with my training. I'm trying to understand more about the "official" (club) paths to go down with GSD's; specifically if I should go the Shutzhund/IPO route or something else (like the - not considering the ring sports since I understand they're more difficult than Shutzhund).

So to start with, what is the difference between Shutzhund/IPO and the German Shepherd Club of America? Is it a matter of working dog vs show dog clubs, or something else?

Also, I'm asking about this here, instead of visiting a club (we have Shutzhund clubs close by), is that I've heard that the clubs can be stand-off-ish to newbies, so I'm trying to do as much on my own before presenting myself and my dog to a club.

Any information or advice would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

GSDCA and USCA are the two German Shepherd breed organizations in the United States that put on trials, provide the certification for the judges and helpers, and make sure that the trials are as standardized as they can be. They also record the results of the trials in databases. There are also other organizations that put trials on which are smaller but you can still trial there as long as you have a score book from one of the other organizations, but this usually comes with an extra cost. USCA is the largest IPO/Schutzhund organization in the United States and puts on the most trials. The majority of clubs are USCA clubs. In order to be a member of a local USCA club, you need to have a current membership with the parent organization. Schutzhund was the original name of the breed test/sport, a few years ago it was changed to IPO for world wide standardization. All clubs follow the FCI rules for IPO and basically have to abide by any changes they make because they hold the world championship for the sport. At this point, when most people say schutzhund or IPO they mean the same thing. Sometimes you’ll have someone trying to prove a point and call it schutzhund because some people believe IPO has been watered down and does not test the dogs the same way that schutzhund did years ago (probably the biggest debate you’ll see online or hear in person).

That being said…the training is not standardized at all and every club is at the mercy of their helpers and training director. There are good ones, there are bad ones, it’s usually up to the newbie to figure out which is which (hard thing to do). This is why you’re told to visit the club and see how they train. You can also ask questions about how successful the leadership of the club has been and I would personally gauge a lot off of that. For most people it doesn’t matter what organization they’re a member of as they will just trial where they can when they’re ready. I believe basically every organization out there charges an extra $25 for an entry when you’re not a member.

I believe there are a couple things you should look for:

1-What club and what kinds of working clubs are close enough to you that you can train with them on a regular basis...

2-Visit the clubs in your area...Talk to the members and Training Director and see if you like them and get along with them...You will be spending a lot of time with them and learning from them...

3-Watch the club's training...Watch them train their dogs and see if you like the way they train...(Some use Motivational Techniques and others use Compulsion)...

4-Try and find someone that you can talk to and might be able to mentor you...You Will Need someone that will help you on a regular basis...(It's best to keep working with 1 person or at least 1 method of training...otherwise it can become very frustrating...

~Bob~

Follow the money!!! You and only you will train your dog. The few minutes you will get to train on the field with a club per club day will be 15 minutes average per meeting. YOU WILL spend money driving to and waiting for your short turn. Usually a club meeting will kill 4-5 hours plus driving time and gas plus club dues plus helper costs. Much of the advice you get at club meetings is useless or worse. Michael Ellis has a series of instructional videos taking your dog up to preparing for the helper which takes your dog up to 9-12 months. Your dog has no business doing any serious bite work until he can do obedience at a high level. Michael Ellis is the best teaching instructor available. I would watch all of the Michael Ellis videos on bite work and obedience that I could. They are valuable in that when the club helper tells you to do something stupid with or to your dog you will know why it is wrong and will have the guts to say NO. Don't hesitate to say NO! If they don't like NO then drive away and save you and your dog from ruining your relationship. Clubs and titles are not about dogs they are about people and human ego. I have yet to see a titled dog with his titles hanging on the wall of the dog's kennel. They hang on the owner's wall.

This was written by a Freind in Sport and you may find it pretty usefull IF you decide to go visit a Club

This assumes that you have either heard about the sport of IPO or have a puppy and noticed IPO/SchH titles in his pedigree, and want to know what IPO is all about.

IPO is a challenging sport comprising of tracking, obedience and protection. This multidisciplinary approach requires a high level of commitment from the handlers and particular talents from dogs.

On your first visit, watch the other handlers closely and ask questions. You can learn a great deal from watching each of the handlers who take to the field and work their dogs. If you have a dog and he is less than a year old and has had no prior training, many clubs will ask you to bring him out at the end of the training session when they are working the other young dogs. For this, you will need a flat collar or a harness (if you do not have one, usually one of the members will have one you can borrow.) They might recommend that a club member hold your leash so you can encourage your dog. The training director will usually give you an opinion of your dog, and explain what comes next for his training as far as the protection phase is concerned.

Keep in mind that less than 10% of the puppies will be able to obtain IPO titles, regardless of breeding and origins. It takes a special dog and handler to be able to do IPO. The handler must be dedicated to the sport to succeed. You cannot get your dog ready for trials in one session per week; the time commitment makes it almost impossible to have other hobbies. IPO is a difficult sport; there is a lot to learn, you will need to watch other members closely, decide whose training methods you feel comfortable with, and ask them plenty of questions.
Most clubs will help you, regardless of how much work your dog needs but will also let you know if the sport is not a good fit for you and your dog. It does not mean that your dog could not do well in other sports.  Remember it is not easy for training directors to tell you what you may not want to hear, most do not take any pleasure in explaining your dogs nature and faults, so please leave your ego at home. It is very important for your future training that you know and understand what your dog is capable of and what he is not.
Most IPO clubs are not like an obedience club where you pay someone to teach you and your dog. You are ultimately responsible for your training. Many clubs ask non-members for a payment each month to help pay for equipment, seminars and trials.

Frequently Asked Questions:

What do I need to do before I come out to meet the club?

• Socialize your puppy! Take him to lots of places and meet lots of people, if your puppy is a little timid, do this gradually, don’t overwhelm him at a dog park. Let him meet a friendly neighbor’s dog first. Don’t encourage or reward him if he is showing fear, growling barking or backing up, in any new situations, but give him plenty of praise and/or food when he steps forward.
• Help build confidence in the dog - avoiding harsh corrections helps build a good relationship between the pup and his owner. Research and learn the basic dog ownership skills and theories of training which will help you understand IPO training. Most clubs do not have time to teach everyone the basics of dog training, but can help you move forward.
• Encourage your puppy to play with toys, but do not leave the toys with him all day. You can leave him with bones or Kongs to keep him occupied when you are at work, but reserve balls for playtime with you and your puppy. We want the dog to view the ball as a reward to help us with our training.

What should I bring on my first visit?

• Ask the club contact/training director if it is OK to bring your puppy/dog with you. If you do, you will need the following:
  • Crate, to keep your puppy safe while you are watching the training and to stop him tearing up your car when he gets excited watching.
  • Flat collar, for prey/rag work. The thicker the better so it does not dig into his neck. Don’t buy special equipment yet though.

What can I be doing with my puppy at home afterwards?

• Continue working on socialization, obedience and playing with a ball.
• Once your dog is old enough, your club will help you move on to the Schutzhund obedience, which is a little different to traditional, or AKC obedience.
• You will probably want to track a few times with an experienced member before trying it at home yourself, but you can always do scent pads. Step a circle of grass about 3 feet diameter, and step all over the inside of the circle. Place a small, orange construction flag by the side, and scatter your dog’s food within the circle. It works well to do this at feed times. This helps him to learn that your scent and the scent of crushed vegetation are good. Ask a club member to demonstrate this for you.
• The training director will advise you regarding protection training. It is highly recommended to stick with the same trainer until your dog is at least IPO1 titled so that his training is consistent while he is young.

Written by: Louise Jollyman of DFW Working Dogs

If you can join an IPO club, do so by all means. You as a handler will learn so much of on hands experience and first hand observations of where you can get to if you stay committed. I have seen so many newbies messed up by videos because if your dog's action deviates from video, then you can't continue without being in the dark. Also, typical handling/training issues like moving too fast, not enough foundation, etc can not be answered in reference to YOUR dog by the videos. In the club there will be people who understand where you are and what your problem is and can give guidance on moving past it.

Go to Leer burg and listen to a free description of the biting dog sports. Michael Ellis takes you through the differences in IPO, KNPV, RING SPORTS and others. 95 percent of any IPO score is obedience. The three parts to IPO give the dogs rest and a chance to change their mind set while Mondio and Ring sports are 45 minutes with everything mixed together. That's why Mondio is much tougher than IPO physically and mentally. IPO is the same three act play with the same script while Mondio is always mixing things up ..... the Mondio dog must think and adapt not just follow the script. The idea that IPO is a test for breeding or that 90 % of dogs can't do IPO is a laugh. Ivan Balabanov taught a Tiny terrier to do a complete IPO routine. The top 20 dogs at the IPO world championship differed by a total of 10 points ( 283 #1 top to 273 # 20 ) and the results differed more on style than substance.

The club members and helpers are like the first year math teacher that is one chapter ahead of the students. The more I learned about my dog and what he needed the more I realized that most clubs follow a cook book approach. They want to adapt the dog to their training methods instead of adapting the training to the dog and most of them know only one way to train. Know your dog is the most important thing.

You can know your dog and still not know what's best for your dog😴

So what happens when the club level experts who don't know your dog at all disagree ??? And they never agree .. been there done that. They have all had different experiences and are sure that their way is the only way that works. Thats why most of them have to find a dog that fits their cook book instead of adapting the training to the dog and the dog's needs. You know your dog and train your dog to the best of your ability ... the club will never do more than back seat drive.