Long coat GSD - Page 1

Ok probably another silly post by a newbie but , what the heck is a long coat without a undercoat? Is this considered a fault? Can someone post a pic if they know of one please. Thanks

Yes that is a fault.

I don't have a picture, but imagine a coat that is slightly longer, a bit wavy and silkier. Rub your hand backward against the fur lie, and there is no shorter, cottony, undercoat.

Without an undercoat the GSD is not the weatherproof dog he needs to be.

Ladyboss, a pic probably wouldn't help, you can't see past the outer guard hairs ! Most dogs of that sort have a considerably longer hair length than what we are more used to seeing in "coaties", the frequently available fluffy langstockhaar dogs of which there are many examples on PDB. As said, the coat is usually silkier in texture; so it lies more flat on their body; the lack of undercoat is a bit of a misnomer as many (most ?) do have SOME second coat underneath, but it is very patchy ie only in certain areas of the body, and it is so obvious on examination that what little exists isn't enough to be 'weatherproof' (keep the animal warm and dry when the outer coat is wet), the reason that it has always been regarded as a Fault becomes clear.
In the UK (dunno about America) I see less and less of these very long coats in the general population, the way Show Breeders have done what they can to eliminate them having had a knock-on effect in the majority of GSDs around.

Just curious , saw a female of this type. Which of course I had no idea. I just assumed she was a long coat. After we left my friend asked me did I notice anything different about her coat. She did look rather silky but that's all I noticed. Then she said she had no undercoat & it was a fault. Just never heard of that thought it was interesting. I wonder how often it occurs. Thanks

I also have a question. I know long stock coat is recessive to stock coat, but where does long coat factor into it?

Is it dominant or recessive to long stock coat? I'm pretty sure it's still recessive to stock coat, correct?

Is it SH, LSH, LH, from most dominant to least?

@Reliya, Guard hair varies from less than two inches to upto 6 inches & everywhere in between. Then there comes coat texture, silky, woolly, wavy.... Then, and most importantly, the undercoat, it's presence & adequacy.

I don't think we're dealing with something as simple as GSD Coat Colour Genetics here.

If you have seen a flat-coat retriever, then the long-coat GSD hair looks more like that, it lies "flatter" on the skin than one with undercoat.

@Koots, I've never seen a LangHaar, but heard that their hairs part in the middle along the spine, true?

There is often (almost always) a distinct 'parting' along the centre of the back, as well, due to the weight of extra long hair, how flat it lies (even when course rather than silken), and there being no undercoat on the main part of the body.
Not usually so obvious in langstockhaar.
The proportion of such coats in the GSD breed has always been reckoned in with the overall ratio of langstockhaar, as far as I have seen; at around 12% to 20% of the breed as a whole. If any studies have separated out 'long coats' from 'very long coats without proper undercoats' I am not aware of that, but if they have then maybe that would include an estimate of numbers. However, experience tells me that the number occurring can vary greatly over the years, depending on what is generally being bred, and what is being actively selected against at the time. There are of course some 'breeders' who deliberately produce a higher rate of long coated pups because they are cute and they sell. These do not seem to differentiate between 'fluffy' and 'flowing'.

Genetically speaking, there was information that coat length is due to an autosomal recessive gene, it takes two carrier or affected parents to produce long coated offspring. I don't think that has been overtaken by greater genetic awareness - unless someone knows better ? Certainly the results of test matings bore that out. But because the Ll gene is common to all longer haired GSDs (and some other breeds eg St Bernards), from just 'plush' (almost indistinguishable from stock coats) right through to those examples dripping with 6 or 7 inches of body hair plus feathering on ears, belly, & legs to match, unless more recent work on genetics has succeeded in identifying some other factor involved then it is not possible to give a more definitive answer to Reliya's question.