training question - Page 1

Guys,im trying to understand some different training methods.im trying to find out what is more REAL LIFE type training such as POLICE.In my last post on Personal Protection i did not mention that if PP dogs are so unpredictable then what about police dogs and there training?They bring there dogs home to there families so how bad can it be to do that type of training?

Domenic I would certainly not think that a well-trained and well-balanced PP dog is necessarily unpredictable. That unpredictability would be the result of a certain dog's natural temperament and nerves, plus the training method used to develop this dog. A well-trained PP dog should be stable and predictable, but must be protected at all times from things that might set him off and cause an unprovoked bite. But that is advice for practically any of our dogs. Yes, I have seen PP dogs as well as trained K9's that seemed ready to bite anything that moved. A PP dog of the correct temperament, training, and stability is a special animal-there is no doubt about that. They are out there, and tend to be valuable animals for their purpose. Bob-O

IMO In the sport to make very good points you want a dog that is a little more balenced tward the prey side. if a dog is more prey oriented you tend to get better gripping behaviour and better secondary ob. the police and "real" dogs tend to want a dog that likes to fight more. one way to do this is less bites and slips and letting the dog hold the prey object. for example if you want a dog to fight more simply fight with the dog more than just a bite and slip. get the dog on a sleve or suit and just let the dog bite and fight with you for a while. in a ten min training seccion a dog that you want to teach to fight might only get 3 bites compared to a dog that you are trying to teach to be prey oriented might get ten bites, this is just an example. the police just do this in all kinds of environments, in houses, dark allies, on slippery floors, wearhouses, ect with little formal routine and generally the dogs will be cued to the police lights and anouncments.

Bob-O, very well said. A well-trained PP dog should be stable and predictable, but must be protected at all times from things that might set him off and cause an unprovoked bite. That is difffently the key, Under certain situations, they are trained to bite, they are not waiting for a command. You know what the trigger issues are and you adjust for them.

I think we maybe confusing PP dog training with military, security and guard dog training. These dogs are somewhat sharp and made distrustful of trespassers. The style of training for PP and patrol k9 is not that different than sport dog training. There are methods to harden dogs once they have obtained their Sch titles. Many police dog trainers (I'm in law enforcement) do not understand the benefits of schutzhund. There are three police k9 trainers that understand the benefits of schutzhund and are excellent trainers; Mike Diehl (USA), Bernhard Flinks (Ger.), Gerold Groos (Ger.) Police K9 handlers that have been educated in schutzhund, understand the benefits of obedience and the bonding that it brings. The sit and bark is an important exercise in these very litigeous times. We train our schutzhund dogs on the bite suit to add variety to training. We also pull out the hidden sleeve at times to see where the dog is at mentally. T. Floyd and Dean Calderone don't trial with punk prey oriented dogs. Their dogs could easily be converted to PP or patrol K9. For your own personal knowledge I would check out the KNPV program and the exercises they use to evaluate their dogs for service. Kyle

You need to understand that police k9 just don't turn their dogs loose with the family and/or friends neighbors. Each dog is different and some you can trust and some you can never just turn loose to run around the house.

Domenic, D-R is correct, not all patrol K9 are suitable for school demonstrations or to be left alone with family members. Many patrol K9 are imported and were once kennel dogs with limited social skills. Now if a pup were raised by a k9 handler and well socialized from the begining then the home situation is possible. THe dogs that can make this conversion are difficult to find. The dog that can do this is very clear in the head and has an on off switch. Below is a link to a friend's dog that has this on off switch. I have done some of the helper work on this dog and his grips are crushing. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/picturegallery.viewgroup?id=2533 Kyle

Bob-o Again as usual Very well Stated and Kyle IMO you have great valid points. Basically a personal protection dog IMO depending on lifestyle and enviorment has to either be sharp moderately sharp or limitedly sharp but there def. has to be some form of sharpness for a decent personal protection dog. But once again it basically leads to the people who own dogs should be licensed not the dogs. No Dog at any time should be left unsupervized period. this will only lead to mishaps. dogs usually are not the ones at fault, it is usually our lack of control or supervision that leads the dog to a faillen point. Dogs Dont Bite People, People Get People Bit.

I have a personal protection dog that was trained in Germany. I was told that all of the various training helps build confidence. Most Dogs bite out of fear. I've had friends of my grandchildren (total strangers) run up and kiss the dog right on his nose. He didn't even flinch. In short the message I received was that a "well rounded dog" was more stable and less likely to bite. Want to see a beautiful male Shepherd? http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/15744.html This guy is a chick magnet. Wherever I take him the woman literally come out of the woodwork to meet him.

Sorry, I put the wrong link in the previous post. Here is the correct link to my beautiful Shepherd: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/456864.html