HELP!!! NEED ADVISE 2 FEMALE DOGS WITH A LITTER OF PUPS - Page 1

My german shepherd recently had a litter of pups that are 3 weeks old 9 in total. Mother has been nursing cleaning feeding etc really well on her own. We have the dad and also an 8 month old female border collie in the same home. Up until now neither of the dogs have been allowed near the puppies but now the pups are walking etc mother dog has allowed both the dad and the collie to be around the pups and just today our collie has started showing what looks to be signs of attachment to them. She was stood in the pen with the pups when the mother of the pups came back and the collie started to growl toward the mum which surprised me. This behavior is out of character for the collie and was slightly bizarre as obviously they are not her pups and she is still a puppy herself. Any advise or information regarding this from anyone who may have had a similar experience would be greatly appreciated.

Before any dog/pup DIES keep all the other dogs AWAY from the mother and her pups.

I am sure you will get an ear full soon.

Yes all this sounds like a newbie so, let this not be a bash fest about that, let it be a learning for them and all others who read this post

Hi thanks for the reply. the pups have been very carefully monitored for the first 3 weeks without any problems. We dont fear the issue of any pups/dogs dying. That isnt the issue. The mother dog has allowed both the dad and the collie to get in close proximity and play with the puppies. There is no aggression. It was a question about the young female collie who growled as she was standing inside the pen at the mother. In the space of one day the collie who was curious at first with the pups has suddenly become really attached we think this may be that the mother dog has got to a point were she has a lack of interest with her own pups and seems fed up. the puppies are 3 weeks old and are getting their teeth through and sharp claws etc so understandably she is tired. So our question is, is it possible that our 8 month old collie who is obviously not a mother herself take on the role and duties of the actual mother. I understand people will reply with negativity however for us there is no concern about aggression.
Thank You

The pups are too young to wean. They MUST have mother's milk. Take the collie out. There is absolutely no bennifit to the puppies or mother dog allowing the collie to interfere.

Hi Joanro, thank you for your reply. I understand that the pups need the mothers milk however i dont think im explaining the mothers state of mind very well. She feeds reluctantly and prefers to be apart from them to a point were she is climbing up and laying on the table and on the kitchen sides to stay away from the. She looks tired and depressed and i think the nursing of the pups is taking it out on her. She is sore from the feeding and is always scratching at the door to get out of the room the pups are in. The question isnt about the mother or the pups, its about the collie and her behavior possible "taking over". The collie behaves in a way that now with the pups she will lay in the same pen amongst all them, initiate play, cleaning them and generally looking like the mother to the pups. Is it normal, should we prevent it and keep the mum in there or is she infact helping were the mum cant. Thank You

The thing is the Mother dog does not stay 24/7 with her pups.  When they get to this age they may stay away for 4-6 hours at a time just come feed clean and then leave. This is normal and at this age you should also be starting the pups on food and have fresh water available to  help the Mother dog out.

Keep the other dogs away. The collie you say is growling, you say you are not afraid of aggression on her part what do you think is her next step after growling a kiss.

Make a set up where the mother dog can come and go as she wishes and no other dogs can get to her or her pups.

 

The aggression and stuff is not the question, im just asking if its possible for another female dog who is 8 month old to take mothering or have the mothering instinct in her to actually act the part. Of course i dont expect a kiss after a growl im not stupid, ive been with the pups hours on end and the dogs are never un supervised with the pups i just found it really bizarre that she would do that to the mother of the pups. If its not normal its a simple case of separating the dogs altogether, however its only been in the last 24 hours that the collie as really started to interact with the pups. Prior to then she hasnt been near them since they were born. The traits of the collie are of that of a calm submissive obedient dog. Its the only time in the 8 months weve had her that shes actually growled and that was when the mother was in close proximity to her own pups. The pups are 3 weeks old we will be starting them in 3-5 days on their own food and water. Looking after them isnt the problem. Its just bizarre that a young dog of 8 month old would act like that. Im just positing to see if anyone has experienced this.

Thank You

Yes an 8 month can/ will have the instincts as they are also able to have pups of their own at this age.

This question does not go with the title of your post so that is why I gave you the answers  I did.  

I thought you needed help with two females and one had a litter.

Will strongly echo the advice you've been given. Get the Collie OUT of the brood box, and away from the puppies 100% of the time. Allow zero contact at this age. The mother puppy bond is critical to both Mom and the babies, and to consider allowing an 8 month old to intimidate her by standing in The Mother's box with her puppies and growling is not good. When the pups get to be 7-8 weeks old allowing short play visits in a neutral area without mama present is fine, but @ 3 weeks you are risking damaging Mom's mothering abilities both now and down the road. And if Mom decided that the Collie is a danger and an interloper in HER den there is a danger of a major bitch fight which could injure both adults and even kill a puppy. In short you could luck out, and things go fine BUT you're playing in a dangerous area for the safety and well being of the entire K9 family that could lead to a permeate grudge between the two gals with no benefit.

Thanks for the reply. Yes thats well noted. We didnt really allow it, we just supervised her as she was in the den, the mother came up and the collie started to growl just like how the mother used to growl just after she had given birth. As soon as she growled at the mother, I immediately took her out of the den and into a separate room. We will minimize contact to a 0 with the collie and the pup and allow play time at 6-7 weeks old.