Puppy coat changes? - Page 1

Hi everyone, I have question regarding my dogs coat. When I first got my puppy (8 weeks), he looks like a short stock coated pup. Short hair, no feathering around his ears and front legs. But after a while, it seems that he grows a lot of feathering hair around his ears & front legs. Which from what I know, it's a sign of a long haired dog. Another part of his body is still short coated though.

 

From what I know to have a long haired dog, both parents must carry the long hair gene. As you can see in the pict I attached, both parents are short haired dog. I also check the pedigree of the parents siblings & also my pups grandparents, none of them are long haired. So I think the case where my pup parents carrying long coated gene eventhough they are short haired can be excluded.

 

So, are this condition happens often? A dog with a short coats suddenly bloom his coats? And in the future, can the coats become short again? If you have a coat transformation pictures from puppy to adult, that would be great!

 

I still love my dog whatever his coats become. And I plan to work him not show him. So the coat thing is not a big deal. Just curious about the long coated gene & the puppy coat progress. Thanks!

 

Definitely a coated pup, IMO, I can see the signs in the younger pictures. It is very difficult to be sure sometimes when they are young. In case you decide that you want to show SV style, the coat does not prohibit you from doing that, they show in a separate class :) Wishing you lots of fun raising and training your pup!

In answer to the genetics question you have regarding your pup's parents, being Shorthaired and still being able to produce Longhair pups, the short answer is, yes. A detailed explanation from the PDB archives by author Hodie, is provided here:

The gene responsible for coat length is designated as FGF5 (fibroblast growth factor-5). It is an autosomal recessive gene. Recessive genes remain "hidden" unless two copies are inherited. There are two variants of the gene for coat length, called alleles. Each parent contributes one allele. One possible allele is given the designation "L" (for short coat) and the other "l" (for long coat). The "L" form is the dominant allele, meaning coat length in an animal would be short coated if both inherited alleles OR a single copy of the "L" allele are inherited by the offspring.  In order for the coat to be long or fluffy both inherited copies must be the "l" allele. Obviously, a dog may be either "LL" or "Ll" or "lL" or "ll". The dog with the latter allele pair will be long coated, while the others will all have short coats. However, the "ll",  "Ll" or "lL" allele pattern means that these dogs are carriers of the allele for long coat and may, if bred to another dog who possesses an "l" allele, result in progeny who are long coated. Dogs who are "LL" are short coated and even if bred with another dog who possesses the "l" allele will produce only short coated dogs because the "L" allele is the dominate allele.

At least two other genes have been identified for coat texture, such as "satin" or "curly", but these are not the same as the gene responsible for coat length. The two I mention are autosomal dominant, meaning only a single copy need be present in the animal for it to show the given trait.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/community.read?post=458068&p=1

I forgot to add... what an adorable pup you have! 

That´s a cute one!
Your youngster is a coat, and yes, like Spruell and Bee already wrote, it´s possible because of recessive genetics in case of coat length - and in some cases it´s difficult to see - even experienced breeders sometimes have to "guess".
My last male was an "I am not sure, might be...", and I ended up with a beautiful coat for the first time in my life...

Hi Spruell, thank you! 
Yes I know in SV shows long coated dog can be shown in separate class. And as far as I know long hair in SV is registered under separate class too, am I correct? But how about breeding? Is it permitted to breed long coated to short coated dog? Or long coated must only bred to long coated only? 

Hi Beetree, thanks for your detailed response! 
But like I explained before, I already checked my pups parent siblings pedigree, and also my pups ancestor and progeny until 4th generation and so on, and none of them are long haired. If my pups parents carrying recessive long coat gene, any of my pups parent siblings or maybe one of the progeny from my pups ancestor must be long coated right? But none of them are long coated. Another details I forgot to add is all of my pups siblings are coated just like mine. So just in case my pups parents are carrying long coated genes, their alele must be "Ll" right? And when you bred two "Ll", stastically the offspring results will be 25% long coat, 25% normal and 50% normal with long coat carrier. But all my pups siblings are coated just like mine.

Thanks Susie!
I myself quite sure he will be a coated dog. I often see a stock / plush coated pup that become a long coated dog when they adult, but I never see a coated pups that become a normal pup when they adult. Or do you have any experience in this? What makes me confuse is, is it just a puppy coat development stage? Or my pups are a true long coat? Because when I check my pups parent, parents siblings and ancestors, like I explained before, it is quite strange for my pups to be coated.

Alberic, unless you have access to VERY detailed
pedigree records and photos of all the actual dogs,
you are never going to be able to see, for sure, which
ones were 'coats'. That is partly because the length
of the feathering can be very different from puppy to
puppy, so at the age of registering them some owners
or breeders are not entirely sure if they have a 'longstock
hair' or just a very fluffy stock coat. The 'carried' genes
in the parents (or their parents) do not actually have to
show themselves at all. While it is statistically highly
likely that, for example, some siblings of your pup's parents
were 'coaties', unless you have those pictures or meticulous
records it could have been any of them, or none.
Some Registries just don't record coat length.

If my pups parents carrying recessive long coat gene, any of my pups parent siblings or maybe one of the progeny from my pups ancestor must be long coated right?

Alberic... I think this is where you are having an error of thinking. Each of the parents direct line— only must carry one copy of the longcoat gene, from each direct ancestor (mom and dad) line. The expression of the longcoat gene (l) is not seen, as it is hidden by the shortcoat gene (L) for each generation.

Siblings can have different genes than your pup, if both parents are (L)(l), which is very likely —without having a DNA test done. We can only say for sure that the mother is (L) (l) and that dad is also (L) (l) —if there is zero chance of a secret coupling with a second male. 

Statistically, your numbers are correct as a probablilty, but it is not a guaranteed outcome. Suppose your pup died at birth, you might still be thinking a Longcoat was impossible, and that your shorthair parents were homozygous for shorthair. And of course now, you know, they are not.

Hi hundmutter & beetree. Thanks again for your detailed explanation! I'm fully understand now.
I think it's safe to say now that he's going to be a long coated dog. Thanks again for your detailed explanation!