breeding Show line and working line together is okay? - Page 1

Hi everyone I have a female show line and a male working line.. Is it a good ideas to breed them together? they have both have great pedigree and temperament. thank you in advance

This could elicit a barrage of attacks and arguments for and against showline vs working line GSD, because, for now, you're in the middle of "nowhere". To me, if they both have very good pedigrees, then, ordinarily, it's OK. I Just hope experienced breeders comment, this is because, I hardly see such combinations on both divide, apart from the fact that workinglines now are nearly tending or gradually and increasingly appearing as showlines, especially with the tendency or a curved or sloped back..... as if they're all going show line.

I don't think the issue is really what the lines are from, but whether you have thought about the strengths and weakness of each dog and if they will compliment each other. This decision should be based on what your end goals for breeding are in the first place. At least that is what I would concentrate on if I wanted to breed my first litter.

Those with real experience usually come to the conclusion that specific end goals are so varied, they will exclude pairings of such extremes as the SL and WL have become, but not always, when it is done in the right hands.

I have bred SL male to a WL female in the past. The offspring produced were a direct reflection of both parents...neither of the parents were extreme in any manner of the breed, but both were moderate and with strong nerves, sound temperaments, moderate structure, very bidable and good representations of the gsd as a breed.

U obviously don't know or care what u get in your litter SL are for prancing around the ring so keep them there. WL are to be worked and also have a stronger sturcture u put them together u get a weeker grip weeker nerves overall dogs are mostly a disappointment

I guess this would be an outcross within at least 5 generations?

In case the female is able to work, and the male is fitting to the standard ( given that the female looks good, and the male is a good worker ) AND the health of both is good, it might be possible.
Never forget, genetics are either/or, not bad + good = medium.
That said, a temperamentally genetically mediocre dog bred to temperamentally genetically sound dog will produce STATISTICALLY 50/50, but not the golden middle ( like oversized dog bred to undersized dog = not well sized, but some oversized, and some undersized dogs ).
In case both dogs are health tested, titled ( at least trained and tested ), and complimenting each other, it´s worth a try.

I did this once and had what I consider good success. Good success meaning good drive, good health, excellent temperament (a tad strong), great structure. The male I used was not your average modern SL male. He has...um....how shall I say...gumption. Strong male. Produces strong dogs; quite a few are used for police work in our area. Aggression is quite a bit higher than some want to deal with, but imo, very correct for the breed. Now, my female is extreme in her drives, so I honestly wasn't so much concerned about drive as I was concerned with keeping nerves sound (her drive on nerves that were lacking would be DISASTROUS) and a tipping the scales a bit more toward defense or at least balance. So many working lines are having the defense bred right out of them.

Sometimes you can find something in SL that was "accidentally" left behind because the breeders were concentrating on structure and not just prey or ball drive. Anyway, across the board the only "complaints" have been unexpected aggression (unexpected due to being a novice to working dogs, not that the aggression was out of the blue or inappropriate) and that has been worked through by competent trainers and at a little over 2 years old, their owners are convinced they are the best things to grace the earth...now that they know how to handle them ;). I think some were a little surprised that the cross brought that much aggression because SL tend to be dismissed.

This is the pedigree, and if you search the forum, you'll find the other threads where I was raked over the coals for them. :) I would have done it again in a heartbeat if I hadn't been stunned to end up with BLUE pups. Yikes. So, won't be doing that again, but the dogs themselves were nothing whatsoever to be ashamed of.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2341822-elaina-vom-eisenherz

First of all you have to be honest with yourself and know what your dogs are...It sounded to me as though you wanted to use Your female with Your male...So you should have an experienced person evaluate your dogs to see what their strengths and weaknesses are...
Many times the owners of the dogs aren't honest enough with themselves...Maybe kennel blindness or whatever but it's not easy...
When you breed you should be wanting to improve what you already have...so you have to also be honest about what you're trying to produce...What's your goal in breeding? Are you wanting to produce a litter to make some money...or are you trying to produce something that can Work (Schutzhund...Police Work...Personal Protection)...What are you wanting...
I haven't seen too many people that can successfully blend the Working lines with the Showlines...You see...Pedigrees are only a tool...it's not an end-all...No matter what the Pedigrees are...you have to look at the dogs themselves...What do they bring to the party...
To me the main reason to breed Working lines with Showlines is to look down the road to add something to their lines for breeding down the road...

Depends on several things... #1 being your experience with bloodlines involved on both sides, knowing strengths and faults of both dogs and the pedigrees behind them. Generally that would mean someone very very involved in both Dog sport and showing in conformation. If you aren't then you should consult someone who is.

#2. pups of this combination will be much harder to sell than pure working or pure show line pups as the buyers are generally looking for a specific trait not "muddied" by blending very different types and abilities.

#3. Why do you wish to breed a show line dog to a working line?? What traits are you hoping to improve, strengthen, or change?? Again a knowledge of bloodlines and breeding genetics is critical in making this decision. Sadly many people who choose to do this do it because the two dogs who happen to live with them are of opposing lines and type. I've 4 working line shepherds, but if I were choosing to breed none of the dogs I own are the best mate for the others.

Personally I don't get nuts with the idea of IN SOME CASES doing a Show/working breeding, but I don't know enough about the bloodlines and traits that each are carrying to make that kind of decision. Be sure you're honest with your own abilities and finding the right homes for all the puppies depending on their individual abilities.

Please, SanDang, listen carefully to the posts from
Q Man and Windwalker. They both speak the truth; &
both give you sensible advice. It can be oh so tempting
to mate two animals you already own; and unlike many
posters I am very familiar with showdogs (though not
Ambred ones) rather than being entirely pro the working
dogs. But there really are important things to consider,
including where all the pups end up. If this mating goes
badly and you sell or give away into the world half a dozen
GSD puppies that won't make the cut in any sort of competition,
is this a Utopia where every new disappointed owner is just
going to say "Never Mind, I'll just keep him/her and love them
as a pet" or might they A) come after you for refund or
replacement; B) sell the dog on without regard for its welfare;
C) abandon it / send it to a rescue shelter. Any of these things
could happen, multiply by the number of pups in the litter. It's
not as though there any 'shortage' of Shepherds already !
Please don't breed litters, OP or anybody else reading this,
unless & until you are very sure you know what you are doing
and why.