Puppy problem with older male dog - Page 1

I have a 9 mos old female GSD who has seemed to "bond" strongly with my 7 yr old male GSD cross. The male is her giant chew toy and she constantly bites and bothers him. The male will only really defend 10% of the time and she goes right back at him 5 minutes later. I have corrected her without success. I was concerned that they were bonding too closely and I tried separation during the day. It hasn't worked. Nor have my corrections. She only has eyes for him when outside so I have limited their time outside together. We do practice NILIF (nothing in life is free) with her consistently and she has been to a couple obedience sessions and we do obedience daily. We also play tug. I don't know what I did wrong. My male only has eyes for me, despite growing up in a multi dog household. I am at my wits end. I am not sure she is BONDED to him per se but she cannot help but constantly taunt him, bark at him, and push him around physically (slamming into him). Is it that she has bonded or is she simply trying to dominate him? Any help from the experts?

Figure up how many hours, days, weeks, months they spend time together and how many hours, days, weeks and months you and her spent time together!!! And I mean alone with you not with them together!! When I ask people this question I ussually get that deer in the headlights look.. Like oh no... I suggest you seperate them for the next few months and spend only time together with her. Not only will the older dog thank you "from what is sounds like" but you will be able to get her focuse off of him and onto you... DJ

I've owned alpha bitches like yours, you have my sympathy LOL. One of my first bitches bullied her much larger brother so badly and so relentlessly that I had to separate them permanently.

If it really is a problem for the 7 yr old then you'll have to do as Hundguy suggests. I have 2 of a similar age at present, one 9 months and the other 6.5 years, but both males. I've always had 2 males living together with this sort of age gap. I lost a 14 year old, 4 months ago so bought a puppy earlier than I would have normally but it was from a litter I wanted. Most people tend to say 2 males together is a recipe for disaster and its been covered on this board before. In my experience it's always been great, as long as you watch them together at this age. The puppy will always act like he is the toughest thing in town with no regard for his OWN safety, let alone the other dog. My eldest is SchH3 and the puppy used to launch himself at him, time and time again. I still watch closely at this age and simply correct him and the puppy understands enough. The eldest also can sidestep most clumsy approaches with ease and out run the puppy if necessary. Much to the bewilderment of the puppy and amusement to me. I always see a real change at the 12 months mark when the puppy 'grows up' overnight, or so it would appear. They both still get separated though for proper one on one work, but largely they spend most of the days together, patrolling the property. I'd say 3 minutes of everyday now is set aside for the puppy to be daft but in my case it's never bothered the older dog.

So it is perhaps an alpha response? Yes, I can see that in her. Is her focus on him a result of her wannabe alpha status over him and once it is established she will settle in? OR is her focus on him (more than on myself unless I have food or a tug) a function of "her" being more dog focussed? I am trying to see how to correct this issue. They really are NOT spending much time together....

Kmaot, in my experience it has always come to nothing. I don't know whether you could even call it trying to establish the alpha role or just being a playful puppy with little idea of being gentle or respectful to his elders. In every case and there's been a few 'pairs' over the years, they've got on like a house on fire after the puppy has reached the age of 12 months. Towards the end of the older dogs life the younger dog assumes alpha status but it's purely in a respectful manner at that point. Remember though, others here will disagree but I am only talking from personal experience of having 2 males together. Good luck.

Can't say for sure about your situation, Kmaot,like everything else regarding dogs, each case is special. With the bitch I mentioned, she treated all males the same way and none ever challenged her, so I assume she was accepted as the alpha by the pack. Physically, she was the smallest bitch I ever owned; her attitude was that of a giant. BTW, not GSD's, another large working breed. The way you have described her actions toward him, especially body slamming him, would seem to indicate to me that she is bullying him and he's letting her get away with it. I don't know if it's the same dynamics with 2 like sexes, but it's been my experience that the bitch has always been the dominant figure in every family of dogs I have raised. They are more assertive and will literally fight to the death, especially with another female. While most males are more honorable and will back off once their opponent has cried "uncle", bitches keep on keeping on til death do they part. I think most any bitch in fairly decent shape could probably handle the largest, nastiest male dog around. If they can't overpower them physically, they will outwit them (a lot like life in the human world LOL).

Blitzen - can I stop it? Can an alpha bitch respond will to training...Schutzhund training? Heck, it is a CHALLENGE to get her to look me in the eye.

I'm not sure, Kmaot. If I were you I'd follow Hundguy's advice for now, I think he has a lot of experience training dogs. The only training I ever did was AKC stuff. Good luck.

I have owned a few like this, no it can't be stopped...even after seperated and fully trained if you have them loose out to play with the other they will dominate. I learned to just keep them seperated and did alot of play training...actually the clicker worked well with a couple of these girls to teach focus...also tug for reward of looking/working with me. I also learned never to ask the dog to follow a command with her "buddy" around, like focus, then I would have to correct her for not doing it and cause conflict. When she was young I would let her drag a long line, and when I told her to "leave it" she would get corrected back to me...I would also work here/come this way. I do feel they need to listen once they know something, but you can't expect it during the training part of it. Once this girl was older I would let her out with a male only who was also dominate, and they played fine, he was also a few years younger than her. When she was about 9 I could let younger females out around her but only if I was there to handle any situations. Good luck...lots of work but can be a fun dog to own...oh also yes on the schutzhund my girl hit like a male and was for real...saved my ass a couple of times on road trips.. Heather