Esko vom Black Star in my puppy pedigree - Page 1

I am new to bloodlines and I had been told that Esko vom Black Star in my puppy lineage it may be a bad thing. I was told that the whole "E" litter (Esko littter mates)was put down because nerves issues. I have Barun, who is 9 months old, for 7 months and so far I have not seen any issues other than been a little anxious/overexited. Fine with people, sounds, all types of environments and other dogs. Very independent and a little hard headed. This is his pedigree, any comments are much appreciated
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2417848-barun-de-campo-pushak

He sure has a lot of progney and siblings and a very nice pedigree.

Curious as to who told you that having Esko in the pedigree was bad, and that all of his sibings had to be destroyed due to temperament issues.
At least one of the littermates, a female named Esur, achieved her SchH3 and even participated in the 1999 USA World Qualifier trial and the USCA North American Championships...found that info on the Landschaft Kennels' website; might be worth reaching out to Landschaft or to Esur's owner/handler Tim Nichols and get some perspective from some people who actually had experience with one of Esko's siblings.

Thanks for you feedback. I was told about Esko and his sire Dasty com Gries in another forum as private message. I did not doubted this because it seemed it came from someone with experience in breeding and pedigrees. Also re reading it says that his pups were the ones that were put down. This is part of the message:
"The entire E litter ended up in this country. VERY VERY unstable dogs. I got to experience some Esko kids first hand and a friend experienced Esko himself. Most of his pups were put down at young ages for severe nerve issues or flipped out on the owners when a bit older and had to be put down. He was used a few times in the states and then sold off to some other country. That the mother of your pup is linebred on him 3-3,4 is downright scary to me."
I asked here to have other points of view or feedback about my pup's pedigree. This is only my second GSD. The first was a Show bloodline and this is as you could see a working bloodline with some DDR in his pedigree. I'm very happy with him but want to know the most I can about him.

BTW here is a pic of Barun @7 months getting ready to be groom

Addional question on his pedigree... How much of a DDR GSD is he?

...his is him @ 4 months old...

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Handsome pup, and if you look at his pedigree, the primary in-breeding for him is on Fado v Karthago--remember, your pup's dam is only half of his pedigree. Does it thrill most folks to see 3-3,4 and 3-4,4 breedings in the first two generations behind a sire or dam? No, not unless one knows who the breeder was that did such a pairing, and that the person knew exactly why they were making the combination and what they were going to get out of it...but in the hands of a breeder who is fully knowledgeable of the dogs behind the sire and dam for more than just a generation or two, breeding that close can produce amazing dogs. In the hands of someone less knowing, it can be a disaster, however. I know nothing of the people who bred the litter that produced your pup's mother or those of her parents, so it's hard to say which result came to be.

More importantly, however, is this: did you have the opportunity to meet your pup's dam? What is HER temperament like? If she's stable, your chances of her pups being so as well are certainly greater.

As for Esko's offspring all being put down, MelloDee Middleton of Germelhaus used him for several litters, so I would expect she could give you an opinion of what Esko's offspring were/are like, and if the ones she bred had nerve and/or aggression issues. It was my understanding that Esko just didn't produce as well as had been hoped as far as sports prospects, but to be fair, very few of the top sport dogs in the US make big names for themselves at stud, in a large part because the allure of using the European top sport dogs sparkles much brighter for most American breeders and many puppy buyers, just as the glitter of an imported pup captures the imagination of many when they decide to buy a sport prospect--especially people just getting started in the sport who can be easily convinced by club Training Directors or breeders who also operate as import brokers that the dog they are starting with (usually purchased locally, and often a show-line dog) is useless for the work and they need to let the broker import a pup or dog for them...

Esko is just another of a long line of European working line dogs that came in as adolescents or young adults and did well in the big trials here, and respectably in trials at the international level, which were used by US breeders for a bit, and then were sold off to other countries a few years later for much more than they would have drawn if sold here. There's no shame in that, IMO, save for that of how, far too often, sport dogs get bounced from kennel to kennel for most of their lives--GSDs only fully thrive when they have a person of their own, instead of a new person every two or three years...but that's another conversation.

Most importantly, what is your pup's temperament like? His father's side of the equation contains more than a couple of dogs known for their strong nerve and stability--and those genes play a role in who your pup will develop into as well. It would not surprise me if he needs a firm, consistent handler, but then again that is not a fault--it's what the breed in general requires, as any highly intelligent and instinctively protective breed that forms an intense bond to their people calls for. He has a dog or two in his background that are known to not suffer weak handlers quietly--that will 'answer back', physically, if their handler makes an unfair or unwarranted correction--but those dogs are in hundreds of other backgrounds as well and there's no tsunami of GSDs descended from them being euthanized. Trust who your pup shows you he is, be firm and consistent with him in his training AND in everyday life [important to have the other family members understand and implement THAT], and if he catches you off guard with a behavior you don't feel you know how to handle, seek advice from an experienced trainer with a reputation for actually reading dogs and teaching their owner how to do so as well in working to address the issue, not just raining compulsion down on a dog to gain control.

As for his DDR lineage, you need to go back to the 6th generation before you encounter that, so I'm the wrong person to answer that question--the majority of the pedigree, to me, looks to be based primarily on Belgian dogs [LOSH registration numbers] with a touch of DDR dogs mixed into the recipe.

hexe,

Thank you so much for the time you have taken to go on a detail analysis of Barun pedigree and answering my questions. Is most appreciated. I do know the pup's sire and dam. Actually he is in the breeder's kennel right know while I'm on a long family trip (two and half months) This is a small kennel and they are taking excellent care of Barun. The breeder said that he reminds him of the dam.... that there are no nerves issues. I knew from the time I got him that I was going to have to be very firm and consistent and your input just will make this just more understandable. He is very independent and hardheaded and since very young he has a "old/serious" dog look. At the same time he is sweet and very confident around people and different environments. Thanks again and any other suggestions will be much appreciated. I'm attaching a pic of him with the pack... the sire, dam and some half siblings are in it. they introduce him to the pack one dog at the time to make sure they would accept him. He is the youngest and is on the left, next to his mother (full black)... Best regards.

I saw Esko and his brother compete in several National level schutzhund trials and they were always excellent workers and very strong dogs on the field. I didn't spend personal time with them and never met any of their pups, but I did like what I saw when I watched them work.

Christine

I agree with Hexe--there is no significant DDR influence in this pedigree other than the dogs that went into the development of the Belgian working bloodlines.

Looking at Esko's pedigree, he was linebred on Greif z Lahntal--a very good working dog but one who could bring a lot of sharpness and aggression. So I could see that if not bred to a female with strong nerves, the pups might be overly aggressive and sharp/shy.

Christine

Thanks Christine, I'll keep in mind all your observations as well as the ones from other fellow members and see how Barun development goes... It's great to have this forum to get advise/help.