What do you consider "warning signs" when looking for a breeder? - Page 1

A discussion, not a bashing. When it comes to looking at a breeder we all know things to look for; but what are things that would cause you to decide against a breeder? For me, there are a few things that are a 100% guarantee that I will look elsewhere.

1) Any breeder who uses the phrase "the're healthy, but dogs do get sick."

It's true dogs can get sick, but if I ask how about health testing, etc, this is not an answer I like to hear. Especially when the breeder promptly gets defensive if asked "what illnesses have your dogs had?"

 

2) A breeder who says: "we don't do OFA screening. It's a scam. A dysplastic dog always presents signs in its movement."

I've heard this so many times, even from supposedly "reputable" breeders.

 

3) A breeder who doesn't hold back their own progeny.

This bugs me no end. If a breeder regularly produces pups, yet never holds back any of their progeny, I am dubious of what their aims actually are. It seems like "puppy farming" to me. Anyone can buy already titled dogs, throw them together, and sell "puppies from titled parents!"

 

4) A breeder who says "our warranty is only valid if you feed [brand], available exclusively through [company]. Please be sure to use our breeder number when ordering so we know you're feeding your puppy [brand]."

That's a kick-back program that gives the breeder a percentage back for products sold. Also, I've yet to encounter a food/supplement that single-handedly causes or cures dysplasia. It would be nice if it were that simple though! Then everyone would give their dog that supplement, and no dog would ever have bad hips again. 

I agree with all of yours.
I have heard from a "breeder" that he doesn't health test because he likes to save money so he can sell puppies at a more affordable rate.
I do not like breeders who charge more for a puppy to come with a health guarantee.

A breeder that gets offended when you "ask too many questions" or if you ask them politely why they do something.

For me, a deal-breaker is and has been refusal by the breeder for me to tour the kennels. One excuse I got was that I could be carrying germs that would infect his dogs. I dunno about that, but I want to be able to check out the facilities and view general cleanliness and interaction with the dogs. I also declined a kennel that claimed their dogs were "family raised", but upon inspection, there was no way they could adequately interact with the number of dogs/puppies they had on the ground.

I also want to see and have some interaction with both parents, if at all possible. My latest pup was conceived overseas, so I was unable to view the sire. That wasn't a deal-breaker because I felt my breeder had done his job in making a good pairing and I relied on his experience with the breed, the kennel owning the sire and his interaction with it.

Lastly, I appreciate and expect the breeder to help me select the best pup that meets what I'm looking for, but I will not purchase a pup that I had no input on selecting or have a chance to interact with the entire litter.

These are deal-breakers for me:

Asking for nonrefundable deposits before a litter is even born.

Requiring a certain food/kibble/diet plan and/or supplement.

Advertising dogs that are clearly out of standard as if this is something to be proud of and is used as their only "achievement".

Requiring that their name/contact be kept on the microchip permanently, or not handing over the information so the new owner can update the contact info. I am totally fine with a breeder chipping and registering puppies before they are sold as long as the new owners can update the information.

Allowing new owners to make their picks before 5 weeks of age based on who paid money when.

Well, I guess I'd be off your list, Lies. I have in my contract that my name remain 2nd contact on the chip for life.

This has saved one of my dogs already. Who knows how many more it could save?

What if you and your 2nd contact (everyone puts their spouse, which I think is stupid in many/most cases) are on a cruise together and your dog got away from the boarding kennel? What if neither of you can be reached because you're together somewhere without service to your phones?

If a shelter calls you and can't reach you, they can then call me, and I can go get the dog, or at least tell them where the dog is supposed to be and spare it the fate of the "oops, sorry, your 5 days are up." Some places, it's as little as 48 hours. No, thank you. That is not happening to my pups. No way, no how.

I rarely find blanket rules and absolutes to be productive. Hear someone out on their reasoning behind something you don't like or don't understand. 
 

Nothing personal, what's mine is mine and I reserve the right to have whatever contact information I choose especially for something permanently implanted in a dog. I also never buy dogs with limited registration papers either, but didn't list it in this thread because most breeders I know who only sell on limited are willing to bend that with someone they know/someone who has proven to do the training, titling, and health tested and isn't that interested in breeding (I like to dabble in UKC and SV shows, and if I'm doing IPO, breed survey a dog even if I don't intend to breed). Like you said, blanket rules usually don't matter and I've found that to be true as far as the limited registration thing. I already have backup contacts for my dogs, namely my parents because my dad works from home (his company is based out of state so his "office" is setup in his basement) and my mom is now working part time. They never travel and will most likely never move. They live a few blocks from me and could literally run over and pick up a dog if somehow a dog got loose. I don't use my spouse as the second contact, I basically treat both of us one in the same (same address, same contact number). I totally understand having contact information available in the even that neither of us can be reached, but I'd rather have that be someone who I already know is readily available (to answer the phone and/or to actually go get a dog) and knows exactly how and where to find me than people who are out of state and I may have fallen out of touch with or fallen out of favor with. If a breeder doesn't trust me, by all means don't sell me a dog.

ETA: As I said, I have NO problems with breeders chipping dogs before they go home and putting in their contact information, but I expect to be able to then change the contact information on the chip. I know most people don't, so at least the dog is registered to the breeder if nothing else.

"Nothing personal, what's mine is mine and I reserve the right to have whatever contact information I choose especially for something permanently implanted in a dog."
Thats a little ridiculous IMO. It isn't an ownership pissing contest. This is setup to be an extra layer of protection for your dog.

Another warning sign is when the breeder has it setup on their website to make a deposit or pay for a puppy in full.
Not asking questions about my experience and goals for the pup.
Not having any washouts in their breeding program, they aren't being picky or realistic enough.

It's not really an extra layer of protection when the contact information for my dogs are people that live several states away from me and are not going to be able to help my dog within hours (not that any of my dogs have ever got out and ended up at the pound...but I'll never say never....). Every situation is different, which is why I AGREE that blanket rules are NOT a good thing. That goes both ways. This is one blanket rule that I just personally don't like, but it's not a huge deal because so far I've never had it even come up. I don't think any of the GSDs I've bought have been chipped already. The breeders have asked me and I usually indicate my plans to do it first thing (typically they require or strongly recommend a vet visit within 72 hours so a buyer can't turn around a claim a puppy had a bunch of non-existent problems, and I have the vet do it there or a friend who has the device quick do it for me). I don't like a breeder or rescue with a blanket rule that they are implanting THEIR contact information permanently into my dog with no consideration for changing it. I travel out of state, often with my dogs, but sometimes not. When I'm out of state, the contact information for me/my husband isn't that helpful because we're the ones gone and while we'd need to be notified, we can't exactly meet a neighbor that found a lost dog a few blocks away or something like that. That's why I have ALWAYS listed my parents as my second contact, for reasons already stated. If my pet/house sitter makes a mistake and one of my dog's gets out and someone called my parents, one of them could go pickup the dog within minutes. Even if he got taken to the pound, they live a 10-15 minute drive from the pound.

You're right, owning a dog is NOT an ownership contest. Unless I'm doing a co-ownership, I buy a dog with full registration and it is mine. Some have had contracts, some not. I have ZERO problems with a "first right of refusal" clause in a contract, I just take an issue with the microchip thing and not being flexible on that. But, like I said, it's not personal and Jen knows I'd probably still buy a dog from her ;)