why did this sire produce handler hard tough dogs??? - Page 1

hoping I got the right ped but this import dog I have followed for awhile. he had a LOT of breedings partly on account he is an import which guarantees lots of breedings here.

ped - http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=659054-nivo-vom-lubarser-schlosschen-dna-hd-normal-ed-normal

intro:

I have seen quiet a few pups and followed them along now they are maturing. neglecting the females for a moment some trends I have seen are super nice pups, big heads, big prey, genetically awesome AKA calm full grips, nice types. some lacked suspicion. these are general trends just from what I have seen, not saying they are facts for all progeny.

 

background:

a buddy of mine keeps, trains, sells, breeds a lot of working dogs, many end up in junk yards so he seeks a certain type of dog. he often takes dogs off death row and people dump dogs with good working peds because, well,,.,they want to work and become a nightmare for the owners so they gladly dump them at his place. he does not register dogs or deal with any papers.

question:

he has had an influx of dogs from nivo, the reason given is they are very hard dogs and do not do well in obedience and are difficult to train and handle and are civil.

i have seen these pups do well with good haandlers so there is a handler factor.

but looking at the ped i see high sport dogs thru tom and elluite, i love both these dogs and i like nivo, where does the hardness come from given it seems a trend regardless of the female.

 

 

Interesting pedigree i will put in my 2 cents worth i do not know the bottom ped real well but for top i see some hardness maybe coming through both Tom and the Orla female connie was the orla,s dam and connie had reputation of producing some hard dogs sorry i do not know the dam side well to coment but i see some dogs in the ped i really like.

I thought tom was best known for very sporty dog and threw this in his progeny, quiet the opposite??

 

i think a lot of people here would like nivo and his progeny, i can get why the pups might be a bit much for the casual dog owner but even some decent sports folk could not handle.
 

I just noticed going way back on the dam side there was a dog named Urs and that dog lived with me a few years when he was up in age but he did not produce handler hard dogs, but some of them he produced had decent nerves still others seemed on the softer side he himself was a fun ,easy going, eager to please type, loved people and loved other dogs.

Tom i,m sure could produce many diff types but no dog is an island you have to go back further and youll find tom came out of some hard tough dogs and dogs that could be very high dog on dog aggression. I know myself as i had a close line breeding on tom she was not handler aggressive at all but if she got in a fight with another female look out she saw only blood in her eyes

thanks for insights, interesting. I love this ped stuff.

It's second hand info but I have been told that Fero produced some progeny prone to come up the leash on you.
anyway an interesting topic and hopefully more experienced folks will chime in.

Manto!

Gustav is correct, Manto!

 

I don,t believe there is only one dog responsible for all properties depends also wich female but there
are some nice other dogs in the pedigree

Follow the line von der Schiffslage is also interesting.

 

I,m always wondering most breeders and handlers think automatic the influence from males must

te biggest factor,,,,,,,,,,,,they will never learn.