When is it American/Working - Page 1

Howdy. Anyone have an opinion as to when the tranformation takes place between showline, working line or American. ie: If the third generation back was the German Bred BSP Sieger, but the Sieger was bred to an American workingline bitch and the resulting offspring was bred to an American shepherd (presumable a showline dog), What do I have? Is it a GSD mutt? Would it be a hybrid workingline/showline/American? A distant relative just gave me his AKC 3 year old bitch who's grandfather was the 91 BSP Sieger and it "went down hill from there", I think that would be the appropriate way to describe it. She is a black and tan with a flat back. Nice looking girl with no training and very friendly. Looks just like my two year old female W. German import except for the flat back.

Looking at this all wrong, no one single event occurred that made all of this happen at once, it was an evolution over time.

I wondered this same thing after hearing a bunch of people talking crap about american line gsd's on another web site. I googled this and all I could find is that, if the pup is born in america, then its an american line gsd. Im not sure if this is right or not, but thats what I found.

"Would it be a hybrid workingline/showline/American?" Why does it matter? It sounds like she is a nice dog... I guess an American bred dog stemming from German ancestry.

This is the problem -- who cares American Swiss German Czech-- there is a standard for the GSD . It clearly states the form and function . The conformation and the behavioral traits . Addeptable genotype and phenotype -- do the foreparents and the offspring represent the standard as it is written ? I laugh -- do you know most high ranking GSDs in Germany were to large .. that is how many were ovewr the hieght limit , and i don't care if it was a 1/2 CM but placed well -- to me that is an atrocity -- all should be held to the standard .. but these larger dogs place and many showline dogs lack the behavioral traits that made the GSD the Best Most versatile canine in the Whole entire wolrld - SO if you breed to fit the satandard . i take my hat off to you .. forgety about those fancy accolades or from whence the dog came

I think that many of us refer to the American line as the dogs who were produced from the intense linebreeding of the Lance of Fran-Jo. The Lance was a Troll von Richterbach grandson, and the Troll was a wonderful dog who took a low V rating at the BSZS in 1956 (I believe), was imported to North America and took the title of Grand Victor in both the United States and Canada during 1957. A very nice dog, to say the least. The image of the Troll is the one that I refer to as the "old world" standard. The American line dog comes from the intense linebreeding of the Lance, and was further refined bythe A.K.C. fanciers whose image of the GSD was a regal animal with a high head set, long neck, dead-straight topline with a noticeable slant, and a very smooth gait that made the legs appear to "roll" during the gait. The "limousine" look as I always called it. But, there are American-line dogs of all types, from the weak and fine-boned A.K.C. show-line examples to some very nice dogs that rival anything that comes from Europe. And occassionally one sees a nice example of the breed in an A.K.C. exhibition or a G.S.D.C.A. exhibition. To denigrate a dog just because it was born in North America from dogs from ancestors long present in North America does the dog a disservice. Hence always my question-not who is this dog and from where did he come, but what is he and how does he match the dog described in the F.C.I. standard? Does he have the temperament to serve mankind, and the desire to do it. I realize that others may have much more to offer on this subject, but these are my ideas and opinions, and I am always open to education. Bob-O

Alphapup-good commentary. Bob-O

I agree with you both. Who cares where it comes from as long as the dog meets the standards. I hate hearing people bash a specific line whether it be working, show, american or whatever. They are all GSD's and to say one entire line is more poorly bred than the other just seems a little closed minded and discriminate, almost like nazi's thinking they were the supreme race.

Bob-O and Alphapup, ON POINT!! I think both of you have expressed it elonquently. People get TOO caught up in labels. Bottom line is if the dog will do and represent the standard in the essence of what the breed should be.Period!! I will rant and rave against certain types if they stray from the standard in what they are producing, but "You can't judge a book by its cover unless its READ" Great post you two!!

That's why the FCI switched over the GSD from the Working group to Herding... To have no delineation between working or show line... American or German Bred... It is better to stick to the Avarage Standard that is worldly accepted through F.C.I. than be obsessed with extremes saying Czeck/DDR are far better working lines or that American bred cannot compete in Germany... People have different interpretations of the Standards both in physique and temperament... just make sure your German Shepherd Dog has a job... Hes supposed to work.. wether a companion, protection dog, SAR, guide for the blind and he should be part of the family or community.. not just a dog to display on shows or demo on how a dog can rip off a helpers sleeve.. chao.. till next time..NICE postings you guys.