real working dogs in the yards - not GSD - Page 1

do they look more like a sieger or a BSP dog?

You'll get no arguement from me .. most GSD doing IPO do no real work.  In your video great dogs doing real work .. thanks for showing. 

@bubbabooboo so am i to infer by your statement that neither dog below is working? And that neither will propetuate the GSD as a workind dog?

Working dog is a political term used to replace the proper term biting sport in most cases in the IPO, KNPV, Ring Sport World.  I would include herding dogs, tracking dogs (real tracking), livestock guardian dogs ( Great Pyrenees ), and all sort of service dogs from Seeing Eye to Assistance and therapy, medical alert, disease scent work, and guard dogs or police K9.  There is an entire world of dogs doing scent work from cadaver to explosives, import and alien plant and animal detection at airports and docks.  Dogs doing pest detection ( termite and bed bugs etc).

The bite work for IPO is a game or sport if you prefer .. exactly the same as an opera .. three acts and exactly the same each time .. footstep tracking (useless for real tracking and really an obedience exercise), obedience ( the best and most useful part ) and protection (exactly who or what is the dog protecting) which is identical each time.  IPO is a sport taught by repitition and pattern training.  The dogs know the helper is not going to hurt them after upteen thousand practice sessions .. it is a ballet.  The dogs know what is coming next and when .. no surprises. Running the blinds is an obedience exercise .. the dog knows where the helper is when he steps on the field.  I am not sure that a GSD dog making a passing score in IPO is not better for breeding than the WUSV or BSP champion.  The scores in IPO tell me nothing about how or what a male or female will pass traits to their progeny.

The sheep work is more interesting and it can not be made identical each time so a better test .. I saw this type herding in Germany from time to time but there are few sheep large sheep flocks left and this type herding is primarily a curiousity.  None the less I would say the herding is a more appropriate test for selecting dogs for breeding than IPO .. dogs with good heads and with strength and stamina .. so many of the IPO dogs have gotten too large and get too hot or too tired to run for long periods like a good herding dog must.  The original GSD was a herding dog and I like the smarts and emotional control a herding dog must have to work sheep or livestock.  A good GSD must have emotional and self control under all types of conditions.  That is a prerequisite for breeding stock GSD.  IPO with it's opera style format (3 acts), short duration, and memorized steps is easier for an unstable or aggressive dog to pass than being set against new sheep in a new environment.  I mean the dogs and the sheep get to know each other and over time the dog can get pretty wise as to the sheep that are problems and the sheep get pretty wise as to how they can push the dog's buttons.  I see neither as the definition of a breeding GSD .. plenty of other sports, tracking styles, and jobs that GSD can do so the use of working dog for sport dogs is just a political term to hide the biting sports behind. 

Again Bubba takes a few small truths and uses them to build his excuses for not testing his breeding stock in any verifiable way.

C'mon guys just once can we leave each other alone and discuss the subject in a civil manner. This rip each other up is so tedius now!!!!!!!!

Bubba isn't the only breeder who makes excuses for not testing his breeding stock in any meaningful way. At least he takes the time to research his dogs' pedigrees and working histories before pulling the trigger.

To many other posters here, advanced OB titles mean nothing. UD, UDX -they are dogs playing games in their back yard. Herding and agility are just other games any GSD can play. Yet their dogs have no titles whatsoever. One of the most HOT titled GSD's in the world was called a drop ass showline that took the meter jump like a rabbit.  I could go on but I won't.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=380575-berta-vom-quasliner-moor
 

IMO Berta is the quintessential GSD. She was owned by a friend and I believe she was their first GSD. At least the first that they HOT trained to 4 HGH qualifyers, she was breed surveyed with advanced OB titles. If you're interested, click on her progeny too. The proof of the pudding.........

most of these non sensical rants are just that, non sensical. the world of dogs is guided by the respective organizations. at the top of these worlds are the people who excel at the goals of those organizations. AKC is the people who produce AKC champions and obedience winners. In the SV it is the folks producing VA and BSP winners. Add any org. you want to, KNPV, RSV2000, whatever, it all filters down from the top and the people/dogs who participate and excel.

at the bottom has always been the puppy producers, they never see any value of the organizations but they, without fail, tout the achievements of others in the operation of their puppy mills.

Sorry, going back to the OP .. if you make your living with sheep and have a lot of sheep to move, control, and tend to on a daily basis a GSD is not likely the breed of dog getting into the truck with you in the morning.  The breeds developed to work with sheep as a full time profession are smaller, faster, very tough and very intelligent dogs that are very driven but they were not selected by their ability to bite a jute sleeve.  The OP posted videos of some of these dogs and they are magnificent dogs.