Issue with Deposit--What is Standard Practice - Page 1

I chose a breeder in MN after an extensive amount of research and diligence. I was looking for a working line german shepherd puppy. Unfortunately, despite the well-deserved reputation for producing and training dogs, the willingness to communicate with customers and follow up is sorely lacking.

In March I was told that several females were bred and that puppies would be born in late April. Based on these facts, I agreed to enter into a contract including the provision for a non-refundable $500 deposit to reserve my puppy. For the last two months I have been emailing and calling trying to follow up to confirm receipt of my puppy application, to clarify what I am looking for and to get additional details on the various upcoming litters. During that time, I received two emails back: The first said, yes, we got your application; the second said we are too busy training dogs to respond to your emails.

Fast forward to May and I still didn't have any information on the litters although they were supposed to be on the ground and others are supposed to be due soon. Finally, after emailing and calling several more times expressing my discontent, I get an email back stating that the vet made a mistake and none of the litters took hold. Mind you, this is in early May: the breedings were to have taken place in February and March. I would have to think that it was known well before May that there was a problem with the breedings (ultra sounds/scans and females not changing shape, etc).

Given the poor responsiveness, the refusal to answer any questions and the fact that despite frequent attempts to contact breeder about the working line german shepherd puppies I was never informed that there were problems with the litters, I asked for a refund of my $500 deposit. Breeder has flatly refused to refund the money referring to the fact that the black letter of the law terms of the contract state that the deposit is non-refundable.

I understand all that, but given the trust factor that is inherent in any good breeder relationship and the fact that he should have no problem placing his next litters, I can't understand why breeder is insisting on holding my deposit.

Interested in feedback.

You actually posted this on the GSD Forum and you got a lot of good advice from it. Besides the thread getting closed. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/551986-no-contact-breeder-4.html

Well, that is true, Chloster. But two points in response:

1. New facts have become apparent since that previous posting, i.e. I was just told yesterday, after the posting was closed, that none of the litters took.  Given that, I wanted to hear what people had to say.  Kinda hard to do that on a closed posting.

2.  I understand there might be some overlap between the two sites, but I thought this site might be more skewed towards breeders contributing. As a result, I was hoping to get more breeder feedback.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, howevever. Very helpful.

Yeah I understand. I'm not a breeder so I don't have any good advice for you.. but I hope you get your deposit back, and good luck. :)

I should apologize.  My comments were unnecessarily rude.  I'm just really disappointed the way this whole thing turned out after having waited 2 or 3 years for this opportunity.  Disappointment and powerlessness are not always conducive to proper commuincation.  My apologies.

I am going to give my opinion under the ASSumption that everything you're saying is 100% truth and exactly how it happened. That's my disclaimer :)

This situation is why I think the "non-refundable under any circumstances" is unfair b.s.   I understand why people do that, and I say that on my website as well, but there are extenuating circumstances, and I also say that. These things should have a policy, but be human and understanding and FAIR. To not ever tell you none of the females were bred is just not right and there is no excuse. 

This is my deposit policy as stated on my website. All deposits are non-refundable unless a suitable pup is not produced. In that case, your deposit will be refunded ASAP. Deposits secure your reservation, thus, should circumstances prevent your completion of the pup purchase, deposit remains with vom Eisenherz GSDs, because that pup has been reserved for you and other homes have been turned away. I did my part by saving that pup for you. Should you choose not to take the pup, the deposit will not be returned, especially if the pup is over 7 weeks old at the time.  There will be no penalty for pups under 2 weeks, and 2-6 weeks will result in a splitting of the deposit.  A deposit is a token of your commitment to the pup. If the reason for failure to complete purchase is on my end, then I will refund you. If it's on your end, the deposit is forfeited. Of course, there are extenuating circumstances in which I will certainly try to be reasonable. 

I think it's far more fair than what I saw recently on one site: "Any monies received are non-refundable without exception."  So, if someone pays in full for a dog and the day you're supposed to ship it gets hit by a car, you keep their money?? Really?! WithOUT exception? 

Did you explain clearly and rationally to the breeder why you feel you deserve it back? If you did and they didn't answer, I would try again. 

Thanks for your feedback. I did try to explain why I felt that holding a deposit in these circumstances was uncalled for (i.e. the breeder will not be harmed as they should have no issue placing all the puppies whenever they are finally on the ground, which is probably going to be 6 months).  Unfortunately, the breeder has stuck to the position that the contract says non refundable and that is that. 

Its a real headscratcher to me, because if I were a breeder in this circumstance, the last thing I would want to do is stick to a policy that forces me to deal with a customer that already is angry and more likely to be a pain in the butt than another customer.  I would want to refund the deposit and tell the person good luck but our relationship is now terminated. 

In Florida you are not allowed to receive any monies on a dog without a health certificate prior to 8 weeks.   But people do it all the time.  I don't know if this is a national law but I would google it for your state or contact law enforcement.   If the dog was supposed to be shipped to you I believe the law is for the state the transaction took place which is Maine however if you drive to another state and the transaction sale happens on that state then it applies for that state.    But remember what I said above. It's against the law in Florida to take monies prior to 8 weeks and prior to a health cert. 

i breed German shepherds so this is how I know. 

Dangit, I checked with Minnesota on this and they do not have any similar laws.  Although I live in Minnesota, I was to pick the dog up there. So, I am assuming I'm out of luck in this regard. Thanks for the info, though.

Sorry, meant to say I live outside of MN.