Capt Max's book - Page 1

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by Alamance on 22 March 2015 - 19:03

According to what I understand, the first editions of his book contained comments that wolves were used in the creation of the breed.  If that is true, what was the last edition, printing of the book that contained those comments?


susie

by susie on 22 March 2015 - 21:03

This is the original text from 1901. Stephanitz believed the (shepherd) dogs to be descendants of "wild dogs". He was totally against crossbreeding dogs/wolves.
Whatever you heard, it´s not true.


GSD Lineage

by GSD Lineage on 23 March 2015 - 09:03

Actually ... I think what he said was that it was done, but a bad idea?  yet people did it.
It is not Max's book, but a Bullitin (1919 I Think) Start at Box 328



GSD Lineage

by GSD Lineage on 23 March 2015 - 09:03

Trying to translate with Google help!

Unfortunately, this has led in some Maasse existing similarity between Shepherd un Wolf variously to both types together to crosses; that such Kreuszungsversuch must be a perishable company, teaches us the science. Darwin displays an abundance of evidence that it leads to unrettbarer degeneration, unrelated breeds or breeds, their own communities by growing in each of differing ways are developed, (that would be the correct case for us) to cross each other; he remarks: Cross cancels out the distinctive characteristics of both parent breeds; what it produces, is the real bastard, A being, Whose character is of character. Hierza there is also the consideration that the less noble and sexually stronger race will always be the prevailing part in this FIGHT. By supplying wolf blood, we add to the race alsp incalculable harm, for we do not seek merely the outward perfection of our dog, we also want to get the valuable inner qualities that make him in his profession indispensable and win him new daily friends.

Leider hat dies in gewissen Maasse noch vorhandene Aehnlichkeit zwischen Schäferhund un Wolf verschiedentlich dazu geführt, beide Arten miteinander zu Kreuzen; dass ein solcher Kreuszungsversuch ein verderbliches Unternehmen sein muss, lehrt uns die Naturwissenschaft. Darwin zeigt an einer Fülle von Nachweisen, dass es zu unrettbarer Entartung Führt, unverwandte Rassen oder Rassen, deren Eigen schaften durch Züchtung in von einander abweichender Weise entwickelt sind, (das wäre der für uns zutreffende Fall) miteinander zu kreuzen; er bemerkt dazu: Kreuzen löscht die aus zeichnenden Eigenschaften beider Elternrassen aus; was es erzeugt, ist der eigentliche bastard, Ein Wesen, Dessen Charakter Charakterlosigkeit ist. Hierza kommt noch die Erwägung, dass die weniger edle und geschlechtlich stärkere Rasse in diesem Kampt stets der obsiegende Theil bleiben wird. Durch Zuführung von Wolfsblut fügen wir der Rasse alsp unberechenbaren Schaden zu, denn wir erstreben nicht blos die äussere Vervollkommnung unseres Hundes, wir wollen uns auch die wertvolleren inneren Eigenschaften erhalten, die ihn in seinem Beruf unentbehrlich machen und die ihm täglich neue Freunde gewinnen.

Some of the modern scientists like Mark Neff, should be able to tell with more certainty what went on.


by Blitzen on 23 March 2015 - 13:03

Great reading, Lineage. Who published "The Bulletin"?

It was often said that Inuits used to stake out their in season female sled dogs so they would be bred by roaming wolves. The biggest issues they had with the progeny was that they were often sterile and some were untrainable and not trustworthy in a team.. More  romantic tales or truth? Who knows for sure.


GSD Lineage

by GSD Lineage on 24 March 2015 - 01:03

Yes Blitzen, 1919 or 1920

by joanro on 24 March 2015 - 01:03

Blitzen, wolves and dogs do not produce hybrids..their offspring are fertile and can reproduce. If not, rthere would not be any such thing as dilute wolf / dog crosses. There is no reason a healthy breeding age pair of dog/wolf won't produce fertile pups.

by joanro on 24 March 2015 - 01:03

50/50 dog / wolf, I can believe they would be untrainable so untrustworthy in the team. That's why a more dilute cross is needed, for trainability. I saw some dogs in one on the mushers in the 2015 Iditarod that I would be willing to place a hefty bet are wolf crosses.

by Blitzen on 24 March 2015 - 02:03

Well, yeah I do know that Joan, evidentally the Inuits didn't however as they expressed that as a concern - or so the story goes. Can't ask any of them, they are all dead.


by joanro on 24 March 2015 - 02:03

Inuits are all dead?
Put it this way, if they kept any offspring till three or four years old, they would have gotten pups. Wolf females don't come into season till much older than dogs, and only once a year. So maybe that's where the 'rumor' came from that the crosses couldn't reproduce..they maybe didn't keep them around long enough. But I don't believe that either.





 


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