Why is this dog solid black????????????? - Page 1

Why is this dog Solid black if hes mother is full showline and father workling line... i thought you need two receive black traits to produce solid blacks heres the link to his pedegree

 

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1883676-zidan-of-flokish-fest

You do need two black traits, as black is recessive in the GSD breed.

As long as the mother has black somewhere in her lineage, it doesn't matter how many generations back; a recessive trait can be carried essentially forever. That is also why recessive traits are nearly impossible to breed out (like liver and blue). You can go for many, many generations without seeing it, then have it crop up unexpectedly.

Because I was bored, and for the sake of example: here is a photo of the ancestor of the mother, solid black, born in 1913. 

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=429363-bendix-von-riedekenburg

 

 

And the grandsire of the above dog is Roland vom Starkenburg; a great grandson of Horand von Grafrath.

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1120-roland-von-starkenburg

 

 

There is also the possibility that the pedigree is not correct and does not show the actual parentage going back several generations.  Some of the dogs ancestors are from Russian kennels and some of the Russian black breedings seem to not follow the Mendelian recessive black inheritance pattern for reasons unknown but most likely because a non-GSD parent was substituted for a GSD in some bloodlines before the days of DNA testing.  Russia is a lawless nation so why would they follow the SV or anyone else's rules for breeding the GSD.  There is also the possibility of a mutation in the Mendelian genetics and there are cases in which Mendelian inheritance has failed to perform as predicted for reasons unknown..

Horand grafrath appears twelve times in seven generations. Half brother half sister by horand grafrath were bred in that ped. Lots of white dogs through horrand grafrath...no wonder the white gsd existed back then and at the time was not discriminated against.

Bubba is correct... goes back to the dogs that are rumored to carry a dominant black gene, be it through mutation or something else bred in.

DNA test is in oprder. It could be incorect pedigree..... But because the fathers' blk recessive gene probably clicked in   with this dog which is in the background. :

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1883676-zidan-of-flokish-fest

​And many other dogs like this one:

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1388-arras-von-der-gruberholle

​

The recessive gene usually shows in the parents but as you can see not necessarily so and it may come from many generations ago. 

So if you are white and your white wife gives birth  to obviously black child or vice versa it may not be a reason for divorce but it may may be you too  who passed such gene on your spouse with such gene(s) . It is called dormant gene. 

 Here you go:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2739797/The-colour-skin-no-concern-Jonah-healthy-happy-baby-matters-Million-one-white-baby-born-surprised-black-mother.html

And this one is truly sad:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/sandra-laing-a-black-girl-born-to-white-parents/

And here how it is in Human genetic:

https://www.quora.com/How-is-skin-color-determined-in-babies

 

 

 

Genetic testing has shown that as many as 10% of human family trees worldwide have at least one ancestor that is not accurate (ie someone was attributed as being a parent in the family history/pedigree that in fact was not).  The concensus number seems to be 3%-5% for US citizens.  Draw your own conclusions about dog pedigrees.  Genetic testing for diseases often reveals that a trait or gene that could not have come from the reported ancestry shows up or is absent.  Most often this is detected in the first three generations from the progeny.  Genetic counselors and geneticists often must deal with this inconvenient truth.  If humans are willing to lie about their children I assume they are also willing to lie about their dogs.

 

 

                

Yoshyi vom Haus Dexel (Ingodds Agassi X Diva v. Lippesteg)                             Xena (van Ronald Tienkamp)

 

Diva van Reinolf

 

 

Duchess van Reinolf

 

Father is showline and mother is workingline! In this litter there were 3 sables, 3 blacks, and 2 black/brown puppies. Soon there will be another litter of this combination. 

For the Kennel van Reinolf there is only GSD breeding! 

 

 

 

The simple answer -- the dominant black gene has been reintroduced to the breed, through several lines. There's some AKC-bred dogs who are dominant black (usually through color breeders). Based on the pedigree evidence, the Russian show bloodline has a dominant black line through Vogerland Faraon, going back to the black bitch, Goya. And for the van Reinolf litter, there appears to be a straight line of dominant black through the damline through Kijra, up to the black Dutch dog Vickey.

A DNA test would be the best way to prove the presence of the dominant black gene, but looking at the production history, the unbroken line of black ancestors, and the sibling history, as well, the preponderance of evidence supports the presence of the dominant black gene. It could have been reintroduced through a spontaneous mutation, through never having actually been bred out, or through intentional or accidental cross breeding many generations back.

Christine