Interesting Results... Rearing of pups comparison - Page 1

I'd like to gather some of your thoughts on this. Our first litter of pups stayed with "Mom" even way after weaning age, Until they were all purchased or old enough to move to the "yard" Our second litter when weaned from "mom" stayed in the Puppy area with "dad" until they were all sold or old enough to move to the yard. Our latest litter weaned from "mom" and are now with "uncle Echo" He is our silly AM Bred dog that is just our loved "Pet". Interesting results and I like the latter, Mom's are a little intense, tempted to fence fight the other dogs with motherly instincts, even after the weaning. Dad is very grumpy with the males on the other side of the fence and seemed to "teach" the pups the same thing. Uncle Echo, is a tremendous BabySitter, his corrections are prompt and slight, but good enough to get the "point" across. He loves to cuddle and snuggle them, he enjoys playing with them, and he NEVER is grumpy with dogs on the fenceline. Hense neighther are these pups, they are so happy and well adjusted, they are very confident and approach the other dogs happy, confident, and with invitations to play. I really like these results and am thinking Uncle Echo might be our permanent "Puppy Raiser" Does anyone else have experiences like this or thoughts on this ? I would enjoy hearing what you all do with weaned pups regarding adult dog influence. Thanks in advance to any of you would take the time to post your thoughts. :-)

I leave my pups with their mother as long as I have them, limit their time with her when weaning them, and slowly introduce other older and larger dogs, one at a time, as is appropriate only after the pups are much, much older. All my dogs live together in two distinct packs which can be mixed if I so choose. But I am always careful to supervise them and especially do NOT allow dogs around young pups. I have heard about too many severely injured pups to allow that. Just last week a friend emailed me from another country to tell about such an incident when a female was brought to the area where a mother and pup were, and the second female went after the pup severely injuring it during the terrible fight that broke out between the two females. Fortunately, the pup survived. I would caution you to be very, very careful and not leave the pups with any dog unsupervised except for their mother until they are much older.

I disgree with the above weaning.....pups stay with Mom till weaned and then are divided into seperate wire puppy kennels with trays underneath one male pup and one female pup .....after several days observing which are alpha pups , the division may need to be revamped as u do no want any pup dominating the other...let each pup develop its own personality ....fights start early at feed time and sleep time over toys etc.... pups let out daily after first shot to play in pens with shavings on ground...no older dogs...severe injury to ears etc hips can result with even the Mother dog...she is supposidly teaching them but she is not aware ofher high drive strength and the corrections she gives after they are 9 and up weeks old is too severe and can cause a personality change...My males dont like any pups they think they are preys to grab and Id never let them get near them , just kiss thru fence....I had a father grab one of his pups one time and its a good thing I was standing right there.....they dont always mean to hurt just have that what is this little thing oh a rabbit? a prey to catch and it squeals Oh woops just injured a defensless puppy.....I let Mom and pups just play long enough to run through woods and over some logs and when ready to go back in at night or evening I let her run them in to nursery as they follow her...they learn immediately that Im putting them in a cage and boy can they get wise to that......Each pup does rag work and sitz, and platz before going home so after 8 weeks each is seperated into one by itself no room mate let each dog develop its own at its own rate...

Such Segregation at 8 weeks, (in fact 8 to 12) goes against every single piece of litterature I have read. Everything I've studied suggests that between 8 to 12 weeks is a crucial social behavior period and when a pup learns through "play" with siblings and mom/adult how to "control his/her bite" Also suggests that an adult presence strongly influences puppies behavior and social appropriateness later in life. (ie. seperation anxiety, inappropriate biting, neurotic like behaviors) Much of a pups "development" is learned behavior according to many breeders I've spoken with and every single piece of lit. I have read. Of course there are inate traits that are present and may or may not become predominant. But everything I've read/been told, highly reccomends sibling/adult influence through the 8 to 12 week crucial social development stage. (The age of this stage can vary from authors) The only thing I have done differently is "change up" who that "role model" is. I don't like the Mom's inadvertantly, (quite instinctually) teaching the pups to be fence aggressive. Not that she means to, I think it is just the "instinct" to Protect her babies. so I use "Uncle Echo" We have never had a single pup injured, He is Very low drive dog and is even careful where he steps, Much more careful than the mothers sometimes. I would say it does sound as there are many ideas out there how to accomplish the "influence" of pups and social development. This could be a very good discussion !! Thanks so far and looking forward to hearing from more of the board. :-)

Very interesting topic. What is everyone's opinion on letting youngsters interact with adults and the effect on the puppy's drives. I have heard varying opinions on segregating puppies who will eventually be titled because the influence of the adults may diminish drives. This is, of course, assuming that the adult in question is non aggressive.

I let all my many dogs, of varying ages, interact with each other but with close supervision. But they are also not allowed to be unduly aggressive or to be putting a younger pup down. And I would never put a really young pup out with them. The pup has to have developed confidence first and that is developed with the mother and other pups, and then gradually by introducing others from the pack, one at a time. I have a young female I just brought into the house and she was, at 4 months old, quite confident and spirited. Already at 7 months old she is showing that she will likely end up being the top dog of the house. But they all get along as long as one does not do something stupid like give bones etc. My female who had pups is a wonderful mother and I cannot tell you how much I have enjoyed watching her teach the pups to play, to wrestle, chase, bark etc. Separating pups from mothers early, and from other pups, is, in my opinion, one reason why one sees so many other dog aggressive dogs. They never were given the chance to work things out in a group, and they will do so if allowed to do it. Even when I let all of them out together *(one pack is 17 GSDs), they have room to run, many toys to play with and they get along. One critical factor is making sure you have enough room for the group. Putting lots of people or dogs, for that matter, into small space, creates conflict. That does not mean there are not some small sqaubbles, but if one knows what they are watching and is carefully supervising (and the dogs know I am boss), and, if necessary stops behavior that could escalate, and keeps males away from females when one is in heat, the dogs do just fine. I note NO dimishing of drive etc. The drive is innate. A dog either has it or not and it is very difficult to kill. These dogs can all play with each other and the next minute be begging to do training, assuming I have not let them play to exhaustion. Trust me, for a good dog with good drives, separating it for training will soon make enough of a difference if YOU are capable of gaining the attention of the dog. The trick is in making the training so much fun for the dog that they would rather be with you than play with the other dogs. But in general, segregating them is not going to make any difference. It is an old wives tale as far as I am concerned.

Echo - A little off topic I think, but my question is to you. You stated, "Everything I've studied suggests that between 8 to 12 weeks is a crucial social behavior period and when a pup learns through "play" with siblings and mom/adult how to "control his/her bite" Do you keep your pups until they are 12 weeks then?

For the best developed "pet dog" I believe it is best that they stay with their litter (and mother as much as she will tolerate) until 8 weeks of age. This gives the mother the opportunity to give the pups the "first-time no" where she growls when the try to nurse and she is drying up, then when they don't listen she gives them a quick bite on the muzzle... helps those of us with pet dogs by teaching them we are serious when we tell them no... what they learn from their mother stays with them for life. Also interaction with their littermates teaches them an inhibited bite, the function of play in life (such as it being a give and take thing), and gives them confidence with other dogs. HOWEVER, I believe many "sport" people seperate them early from their mother (around 5 weeks) because they do not want the mother to reprimand them AND from their littermates (around 6 to 7 weeks) because they don't want them to think about playing with other dogs when fully grown... many dogs continue to be "doggy" because they got so much enjoyment out of it and it is harder to convince your dog that it is more fun to work doing what you want (be it tracking, obedience, etc.) than to play with the dog they see off the field. Neither way is WRONG... but I think the purpose of your litter should dictate how you raise it. Personally I like the pet raising option, but then again, I like the type of dog that can be a pet as well as a working dog... but don't care about competing at the nationals.

YellowroseofTexas has it right! That is how to raise puppies correctly. Never leave puppies together/or with adult dogs, they will ruin each other not a good plan. Marlene

This brings up a question of what do you do when you have a singleton? The pups learns nothing from littermates, as there are none. Mother isn't as tired out as a mother with more pups. I know what I did with a singleton, so it will be interesting to hear what others have done, or would do.