Progesterone Levels - Page 1

We have a new bitch that is in heat.  As this is her first heat with us, we're trying to get a feel for her "norm."  The stud we've chosen is a couple states away so the timing is critical.  Here's her stats thus far.  Input appreciated.

Oct 1 - very light pink discharge when checked

Oct 2 - cytology (went in for base) was at 80%, with red blood.

Oct 8th - progesterone was .7

The plan was to repeat progesterone on Monday morning.  That Sat/Sun (11/12th) he bleeding ceases, light straw colored discharge when checked, flirty, our male was interested, and she stood for him (would have tied if we would have allowed).  Our thought:  progesterone increased to 5ng/mland she ovulated.  Our fear was it being the weekend, we had no idea of what her progesterone was.  So, better safe than sorry, we set out to the stud's location.

Being vet owned, we repeated progesterone that Monday as she wouldn't stand for the stud. The result... 2.9. (ugh)

We're repeating tomorrow to see where we are - hoping for at least a 5. Question:  how quickly have you noticed a rise from 3ng/ml to 5 (ovulation)?  Tomorrow is day 14.

Day 14 means not typical.  Welcome to the club.  My female is very non typical.  You actually aren't doing to bad.  I spent over 1500 dollars on progesterone tests at the vet.  I would say you are right in line.  When your numbers come back you should be just about perfect. (my guess anyway)  Stressful isn't it?  It was for e anyway because ours has very strange cycles so I put out the money figuring that it would "Map" out her cycle, and we won't have to spend out as much next time.  we will know what to expect.

Reggie

Fun stuff... lol  Very stressful.  Good thing we love what we do and don't do it for the money. ;)

My husband is there with her now and I'm taking care of things on this end at home.  He got there Sunday night - at this rate he'll be there until Mon or Tues. ;)  I really hope those numbers come back at least at 5.  As 5 indicates ovulation, and it takes a couple days for the eggs to mature, who's waited 24hours post ovulation vs proceed with mating?  Also, it's been our practice to do two ties - 48hrs apart.  Anyone do 72hours apart?

Our girl has never been muzzled (no need - she's just that sweet and awesome).  The stud owners require the bitch to be muzzled.  She wanted no part in that.  Any thoughts or experience on this being a stresser/hinder for her accepting him?

try to find one that is large enough so as to still allow her mouth movement.  tight enough to not come off, but needs to be comfortable.  When the time comes I learned quickly the muzzle is the last thing on her mind.  Your biggest problem is remembering they feed off your emotions.  Be relaxed.  And if you knew me at all you would laugh at that, be relaxed.  We are expecting mid november with the girl in my avitar.  we didn't do 72 we did 48 and then 24 after that.  so we did 3.  

congrats on your upcoming litter!

Probably not helpful, but geesh, the stud owner requires ALL bitches to be muzzled? They require progesterone? If I had to jump through all those hoops every time, I'd quickly give up breeding. What a pain. 

Anyway, on the topic, if she were mine, I'd listen to her and I'd listen to other (experienced) males. I know just as many people who miss breedings on progesterone and ignoring the dogs as I do just guessing days. I have used progesterone testing exactly one time, due to a stud 10 hours away, and have missed exactly one breeding...coincidence? Maybe....but I don't think so. Back to old-fashioned dog breeding for me. 

Canine sperm lives a few days, at least, if strong and healthy. So, based on her behavior with your male, I'd have headed to the stud and let them tie. If she won't stand for him, at least she can get acquainted with him. I don't know your bitch; some won't breed if they're not comfortable with the male. Too early is a lot better than too late...even if you bred a day before ovulation, assuming the sperm live 3-4 days, as they should, then you'd still be ok, most likely, as it's 48 hours to egg maturity. If you can get more ties, all the better. Also remember that if you haven't done baseline progesterone and many readings, then the testing means a lot less than usual, even, as there IS no set "ovulation" number for every bitch. All are individuals. 

Anecdotal- my fiance just bred his female a few months ago and he let her stay w/the stud owner due to logistics. The guy is a bit high strung, and even though he had both dogs there in his living room, he decided he needed progesterone, lol. So, back and forth they went, and finally, after maybe 3-4 times, and communication back and forth, I said this is crazy, just let them try. He said no, her level was only 2.9 or whatever. My fiance told him he didn't want her taken to the vet again (no better place to pick up germs!) so either breed her or bring her home. He bred them every other day for 3 ties. She had 8. Maiden bitch, 4years old, always irregular heats. Amazing how much a maiden bitch and an inexperienced 9yr old male really do know about canine reproduction if you only let them figure it out. 

Jenni is one of the pro's here.  I would trust her experience.

I really hope we're at least at a 5 tomorrow.    Surely to goodness, if we were at 2.9 on Monday, we've at least hit 5 by tomorrow...

Jenni - yep.  Muzzled and needs to be at a 5 before mated.  Meli has never been muzzled - ever.  I get the 'why' but I don't think it's necessarily a must for all bitches.  But hey, not my rules. Right?  It's a great match and we've been looking forward to this for months now.  We're just being overly cautious and on the front end of this because we DON'T know her "norm."  *sigh*    IF she's at a 5 tomorrow, they'll attempt a tie tomorrow evening. *fingers crossed*

I have had a lot of litters and done a lot of breedings...I have only used a Progesterone Test "1" time and had a tie but the female didn't get pregnant...I don't use the Progesterone Test and let the male and female tell me when it's the right time...

I also have NEVER used a muzzle on a dog for breedings...I leave the option open if and when the need arises...You don't want any physical altercations and have a dog hurt...So I would use one if the dog requires it...but I don't think most of them do...

I will always let the two dogs run together before trying to mate them...I have enough acreage that is fenced in that they can do so safely...I belive they should be allowed to get to know each other...if possible...

If the dogs show aggression towards each other then restrictions should be used...

Safety of the dogs and handlers should always be taken into consideration FIRST...!

~Bob~