German Showline puppy price guidelines please - Page 1

Hi there. Can someone give me a typical price breakdown (in US dollars if possible) for "typical" (yes, I know each case is different) pups for the below situations: VA Sire, V female V Sire, V female V Sire, BH female Please assume all health checks would be completed and hips are normal. And yes, I know that VA Germany is different than VA US, etc but that is why I was asking for typical ranges. Thanks for helping add to my knowledge base!

Kmaot, These prices can vary between the individual breeders and if you are buying from the breeder and not thru an agent. From German breeders usually 700 to 1000 euros then plus shipping usually around 400 USD. At todays prices 1,200 euro is equal to $1,579 USD, 700 euro of course would be quite less.

Hi there. I don't actually mean German, from Germany, showline pup. I was differentiating between American and German showline only. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I am talking about showline pups bought from the breeder in North America.

kmaot, The match ups you made above mean nothing, in my opinion. Many VAxVA dogs make pups that are nothing special. Some dogs who are SG X SG or even unshown make excellent pups. What is it that one wants to do or expects from a given pup should be a large part of the equation. And how would you define special or what it really is you look for in a pup? I do not look at the conformation ratings alone of either the parents or ancestors. And in many cases, I would rather have a pup that has the right stuff otherwise than the fact that it has VA sire and/or dam anywhere in its' bloodlines. There are many very nice dogs out there who never had a close relative go VA. The truth is one pays what they are willing to pay and unscrupulous people take advantage of this and jack up prices beyond what it should be. This happens in the US and it happens in Europe. Ask some of the people selling their pups for $3000 and above how many of them ever produced VA dogs? How many ever titled? How many were ever sold to people who REALLY show and/or compete with the dog? How many, most importantly, are not afflicted with known genetically transmitted diseases or bad hips and elbows? Most people, whether we want to realise it is true or not, want a pet. Period. Some people who are paying big bucks for dogs do so because they need some sort of prestige in their life by saying the dog cost so and so. I have paid prices from $800 US to almost $3000. I have dogs from the US and dogs from Europe. The dog I paid the most for is a wonderful dog, but has only fair hips and pannus. I just acquired a dog from Europe with absolutely top notch workling bloodlings for far less whom I hope to title. Pup prices in Europe are generally less than the U.S. However, there are exceptions. Shipping will kill you price wise and at this moment, the Euro is very high against the dollar, so it is NOT a good time to buy or ship unless something spectacular comes along. And if someone bought the pup from Europe and now wants to sell it, be sure you do not let them double and triple and quadruple price, as some here in the states do. I think the important question to ask oneself is what do you want to do with a given dog and can you find a dog who likely can meet those goals. For me, health issues are first, sound temperament and working ability comes second and conformation comes last. That being said, I find a lot of very nice dogs who prove to be good dogs to have and I show and compete with the dogs I buy. In the U.S. you can pay anywhere from $300 to someone who had an oops litter advertised in the local paper to more than $5000 to someone who knows fools are born every day and if they wait, they will catch one of those fools in their unethical practices. There are some like this in Europe too. In the end, it is all about what you or someone else will pay and not what is reasonable or fair.

Kmaot, Remember one more thing: in my opinion, if one is going to pay a higher price for any dog, do it when you are buying an older dog. Pups really are tricky because anything can and will go wrong. Spending a lot of money, coming to love the pup, and then finding out it has some fault ir health problem that means it cannot do what you wanted to do with it can be heartbreaking. Use some common sense. There are plenty of excellent chances to take for around $1000-$1200 with pups and some very good ones at a little less.

How much is a car? It's the same comparison. Is it a good puppy from those parents or are we just buying paper here? What the puppy is should be factored in as it influences the value at least as much as the paper. Having said that, the price difference between VA, high V or high SG is negligible. The range is still 600 to 1200. The cost of the pup is peanuts compared to the costs in the end. By the time the dog is titled, trained, shown, the initial purchase price is almost insignificant. Your time is better spent shopping for the puppy that will do what you want it to do than split hairs on the cost.

For sure Hodie. I know exactly what you are getting at and you put it quite well. I know all pups are a crap shoot despite the parentage. All of your points make fine reading for anyone looking to bring home a new companion and certainly when I bring a new one home for myself. I think what I was really asking however was a very generalised question - moreso oriented toward the "average Joe" who isn't on this board and who doesn't really know what kind of dog they are looking for. We know you are anything but an average Joe Hodie (said with respect)

Hi Dog1. Missed your post - thanks for additional insight. The car comparison was a good one.

The 600 to 1200 Euro pups you get in Europe are meant for the European market with the European understanding similar to what Susie wrote on the Quenn Puppy thread. The expectations of Americans are different. We are a society where we expect others to warranty their products and be responsible for future problems. Warranties increase the costs of puppies. Some puppies are sold at reasonable prices with minimal warranty where it's understood it's a puppy and things happen with puppies. If you paid a thousand dollars and the ears didn't come up. Give the puppy away and get another one. There are Bumper to Bumper warranties and 100% satisfaction guarantees where you would send your floppy eared puppy back and get another from the same breeder. The cost for this type of warranty is obviously more. The parents’ ratings do not seem to affect the price that much. I don't understand it either, but the majority of the people I talk to about puppies could care less who mom and dad are as long as they can see them on the premises. Going into titles, ratings, is just to overwhelming and too much detail for most.

kmaot, The "average Joe" who doesn't really know what kind of dog they are looking for NEEDS to be VERY Carefully led down the path of discovery by a responsible breeder. It ranges from 20 to 100 + questions to make sure of what the "client" wants/expects/desires from a pup/dog. and this discovery is so important both for Breeder and Buyer alike, if buyer ends up with high drive and really just wanted couch potato, Both buyer and breeder will be upset/disapointed in the results and that simply will mean disaster for the pup/dog. Does any of that makes sense ? :-)