Experienced Breeders Please Respond Important - Page 1

OK I need to tell you that this will be pulled and copied and pasted for a court hearing coming up. I am asking for the opinions of expeirienced breeders regarding... Weaning Puppies Specifically: what age is too young to remove and place a pup in a home ? Is it appropriate to take a mother dog away from pups when they are under 6 weeks of age ? What if any Social behavior problems are you aware of that are directly related to "early weaning" ? Here is what happened this guy had this pit bull female she had 10 pups one died, He began giving puppies away at 3.5 weeks of age, We picked her up after he dumped her (he admitted it) knowing she was nursing pups somwhere, We got some calls, some tips, We followed up and found that 1 pup had just rescently been rehomed now at 4.5 wks of age, and 2 were still with her until he dumped her, he still had those 2. So we got her Monday night, she was reunited "finally" with 3 pups Wednesday evening, She is looking good now no signs of Mastitis or other complications from the seperation and the 3 pups are keeping her nursed well. They immediately began nursing when we put them together. I will likely be asked to testify in the upcoming hearing and would like to gather your thoughts regarding those three questions. and wish to "take along" some census from expeirienced personel. Also please include your years of breeding. I Thank You 1000 x's for your consideration and contributions.

EchoMeadows,thank goodness for people like yourself that give a dam.I wish more like you would be our way here in Toronto Ontario Canada.Good luck with your case

Oh yea sorry but i am not a breeder YET.

This is as much a regulatory issue as anything. The norm and often the actual law in many cities and states that have such regulations is that pups cannot be removed before 8 weeks old from the mother. You should have some sort of regulations in your state, if not the town or country you live in that addresses this. Taking pups away from their mother at such an early age may have compromised: 1. Their bonding to other dogs, 2. Their ability to learn from the mother as they have only had their eyes and ears open for a week or more, 3. Learning to play and other important pack behavior 4. And perhaps as important as anything, have immature digestive systems that cannot deal with food other than their mothers milk. By removing nutrients the mother would provide, the pups are all going to have less nutrients available for normal growth and well being. In many cities in the country the dogs will be put down simply because they are pit bulls (*if they really are pit bulls because the name is used incorrectly).

As well as all the regulatory issues.. there have been studies done by Fuller and Pfaffenberger,, you can probably google the exact sources and have real documented experiments on paper for back up documentation....

I have been breeding for 12 years. As Hodie said, there are individual state laws regarding the age puppies must be before being sold or shipped. My state's law is 8 weeks minimum (PA). As for your questions - puppies are normally weaned from the mother by 6 weeks - normally 5 weeks they are only nursing as a "snack". Interacting with the mother however, is important through 6-8 weeks. More importantly than the mother though, is the interaction between littermates from 6-8 weeks - therefore litters should stay together until 8 weeks. Puppies should never be separated from their mother before they are fully weaned (5 weeks minimum) and not separated from their littermates until 8 weeks. The mother is also at risk of health problems if pulled from the puppies too young (mastitis, milk gland infection, fever, not to mention stress of the mother being separated too early). molly

EchoMeadows, Thank goodness for people like you to stand up to people like that. We need more people to have a voice for animals that can't speak for themselves. This year will be 8 years I've been breeding, and by no way do I consider my self experienced. I have learned that when a pup is seperated from it's mother as well as siblings that they can end up with sometimes severe seperation anxiety, as well as not knowing how to play good with other dogs. I say this because I'm going through this situation right now. I also have a pit bull mix that gets severe seperation anxiety as well as he doesn't know how to play with other dogs. Other than that he is an awesome dog. He has already tore apart our spare bedroom, chewed up the walls, broke the window, and chewed up the blinds, all because we had left him alone. Dogs like this will end up at the pound and destroyed. I personally feel it's because they are taken away at to young of an age from their mother, and siblings. It is common law that puppies should not be sold or given away until they are 8 weeks of age, or at least that is the law in our state. I hope this helps.

My pups have been staying with mom until they leave! And that is 8 weeks for local sales, and 12 for shipping. They get their nails trimmed and veiled down so they don't hurt mom, and they also learn from mom, when 'enough is enough' this way. Because she will tell them off. I noticed ALL of my dams start regurgitating food at the point they need them to start on solids. That seems to start at about 3-4 week point where she very interestingly puts a large pile with the larger group which is asleep in one corner and a smaller pile with where one or two pups lay. I was fascinated when I first noticed how clever this was. This way nature takes it course. At a certain point, take my word for it, the pups stop nursing and eat on their own, without any interest in their Dam's milk. I start slowing down the food intake to the Dam after I see she is not 'needed' any longer. The siblings are just as important as the Dam. But, The Dam is EXTREMELY important, and so are other young and adult dogs who my pups are introduced to. That all important imprinting phase between 8-16 weeks needs to be approached with positive care.

I want to say Thank You for the responses so far and encourage anyone else who has expeirience in breeding/weaning pups. Thank You.

My credentials: I have been breeding dogs for 20 yrs. My latest was my 27th litter. Weaning a puppy before 4.5 weeks, assuming the mother is well and capable of nursing her litter, is in my opinion cruel. In cases where the mother cannot raise her litter, care must be taken to give the pups a lot of personal attention: touching, holding to your body so they can feel the comfort of a living, breathing body, cleaning, in addition to feeding every 4-6 hrs., depending on the breed and the condition of the puppies, as puppies under 6 weeks old become hypoglycemic and dehydrated very quickly. They must also enjoy a constant source of heat available in the box, but not positioned so that they cannot move away from the heat when they get too warm. The loving care given by the mother dog is invaluable but difficult to quantify as regards to pyschological development. The interaction between young puppies and their mother is, although not proven essential, certainly important in the pups' learning such things as appropriate vs. inappropraite responses to outside stimulus, social development, and hygiene bhaviors. In my opinion, removing puppies from their mother's care at 4.5 weeks of age, in the absense of an emergency, is cruel and inhumane. Shelley Strohl Frauengarten GSD