NordOsten or Vonhena-C ? - Page 1

Has anyone had any dealings with these breeders? Looking for a recommendation...we are looking for a dog with excellent temperament to join our family.

You might also want to check out Goble Kennels

I am not a fan of NordOsten Kennel; not the least of which they took the same name as a well-known kennel in CT -- Vom Nordosten Haus -- that is active in Sch and conformation. VNH has been around much longer than NordOsten. Unlike Vom Nordosten Haus which has Sch-titled V- and VA- animals, NordOsten Kennel does not have titled dogs in their breeding program. CGC and HIC are certificates. not titles. 

Hena-C dogs have a history of going for Fidelco, a seeing-eye group in New England. I don't know if the pups are still going to Fidelco. I've been out of the NE area for a while.

I'm not a fan of breeders who don't have titled stock, especially if they've been around for a while. I like to see breeders who not only buy titled dogs, but show and title their progeny. Or at least have a strong track record for their progeny being used for service, PPD, K9/MWD. Even titled parents don't necessarily mean the pups will have correct nerves and/or drive to work.

When it comes to temperament, good temperament should be part of the package, like the correct number of legs. I don't think breeding simply for temperament is enough. A good disposition is not at the exclusion of working ability, in my experience.

I'm also not a fan of breeders (of any breed!) who toute "xx% [bloodline]!" because, honestly, there is no way to verify that. While dogs do, of course, inherit 50/50 from Dam and Sire, they do not inherit the exact same combo, and the contributions of the sire and dam vary from puppy to puppy. The puppies are not, genetically, 50/50. Their lineage might show their lines to be half of one, and half of the other, but you can't say for certain what the pups inherited. *shrugs* Like the "high-content" wolfdog breeders who use percentage as a selling point, I think the percentages are listed not to appeal to the true, educated enthusiast, but to novice buyers who want something to brag about when they show off their new pup.

I have a dog who is a combination of Czech and DDR lineage. I couldn't tell you the percent DDR he is. His mother was a Grafental female, his father was a decendant of Lord v Gleisdreick. But percentage? I don't know. Every pup in the litter will have a different ratio of sire/dam traits. This "percentage" thing is a pet peeve of mine; especially odd-ball percentages like "87%!" "94.3%". Lineage-wise, those numbers don't make any sense. (Sorry for the mini-rant. )

Von Hena-C has been discussed before on this forum if you search the forum on Hena .. they have some excellent bloodlines as I remember.  Titles don't mean squat.  Titles can be bought and plenty of titled dogs have been imported with breakfast titles which were never earned.  I have seen dogs shipped to Germany and returned titled when put on the field were not even sure what they were doing.  IPO does a poor job of testing and training females versus males which is ironic as females are 60% + of the puppy's genetics and development.  Vonhena-C has training for their dogs and they are trainers as I remember their web site and dogs.  VonHena trains but they don't play IPO so don't confuse IPO with anything but a game.  A title doesn't make a dog breed worthy any more than owning one makes the owner a trainer.  IPO titles are also not any better than a dozen other brands and variations of dog sports available for training.  KNPV dogs are preferred over IPO for police work based on imports and sales in the USA and plenty of police trainers do not want IPO trained or started dogs for police work.  The police don't use jute sleeves and they don't restrict their dogs to arm bites.  IPO is a game and a CGC is just as relevant as a BH for selecting a dog for a home environment.  Look for people who have dogs and have purchased from these two kennels .. use the forum if necessary to find them.  I have never heard a bad word about von Hena-C which means they must not be selling any dogs because in the GSD business it seems the complaints and business disputes are all that gets discussed .. most kennel discussions tend to be complaints and not praise.

Thank you for your input. True; I haven't heard anything bad about Vonhena-C, but I also can't seem to find anyone who has purchased from them in the last few years! I will also look into Goble Kennels.

Forgot to mention that Hena-C has a foster or co-ownership program as I remember .. which means that many of their brood females and dogs are not just kennel dogs but live with families.  This is an excellent program to help select and use brood stock which can live with a family.  Lots of competition dogs which participate in high level points based type sports or games need incredible focus and over the top drives.  The very traits that make them "top" competition dogs can also make them impossible for the average family to live with as a house or companion dog.  Breeders such as Hena-C identify those dogs capable of living within an average household through a foster or co-ownership program.  Just like professional athletes in the NFL or NBA some top competitors in IPO, KNPV, and Ring Sports are crazy competitors both on and off the field.  I don't have any dogs or know of any owners from Hena-C but from what they have on their web site I wish I did.  I believe the Hena-C dogs are a little pricey but no more so than importing a dog from Europe if you include the shipping costs, potential shipping trauma to the dog, and hassle of importing .. whether done directly or through a broker/importer.

I have heard positive comments about pups from Hena-C. Working line breeders. Never heard of NordOsten. The CT breed of a similar name specializes in long coat SL but do have stock-coated pups as well.

Actually, Fidelco has their own breeding program. as far as i know, they tend to get their breeding stock directly from Germany.

if a breeder cant even come up with their own name, I wouldnt put anything past them...

by default...go with Vonhena-C

A prospective buyer called me and said that he was looking to start over because he loves his dog from Von Hena-C, but can't get papers. I asked him what, exactly, he meant, and he said she refused to give him the papers because she didn't want him breeding the dog. I told him that if that was what he agreed to, then that was the deal and he should be glad she cares about breeding quality vs. non-breeding quality. Then, he explains that there is nothing wrong with his dog and he paid full price for him, ie, no discount for a flaw or anything. He called and asked her, even offered her money (difference in price between full registration and limited) and to show her the dog and explain why he wants to breed him, and she told him, apparently, that she doesn't want her buyers, especially local ones,  breeding her dogs and competing with her. 

 

Trying to control people with your own vision, tied up in competition. Really. The breeder should have more faith in themselves. Now it seems petty.