Are you willing to battle for Fido (same as 11617 - Page 1

I have a question to all of you working line guys and gals out there. What would be the "turning point" in your mind, as to when the hardness of a GSD has gone too far, or to put it another way, what would be the epitomy or ultimate "hardness" of a GSD? Fighting to his death against three men? Fighting until he is severly wounded by one man with a knife? Attacking an entire army platoon of the enemy? What would your ultimate goal be, in the area of hardness, nerve, courage, etc? Would retreating from an attack be okay if he is shot twice, or if he gets two broken legs in the battle? Or should he (if he is a REAL DOG) always fight to his death to protect his "master". And how many of the "masters" out there would fight to the bitter end for their GSD, against, lets say, a pack of Pittbulls? Just curious :) I covered a lot here, but what I am really after is "how many of you GSD workingline owners" would fight along side your dog if it was for real, his life or death, not necessarily yours". When I was about 8 years old I owned a small beagle and while walking him, a GSD attacked him and was tearing him up. I did everything I could, pulling on the shepherds tail, grabbing it's neck and pulling it backwards, etc. I was just 8. Anyway, I took some really bad bites on my hands, arms, thigh and buttocks (thank God none on the face or neck). My beagle lived if that matters in this discussion, but it has me thinking. Would I go to war beside my dog/s now, say, against a pack of coyotes or something similar? My personal answer is this: Yes, they are family and I will go to war for my family, even if I think I may die. Just about wherever you are, there is something that can be used as a weapon and I would find it quickly, a rock, stick, tire tool, gun, baseball bat, whatever, but I would not be calling 911 or standing on the back porch screaming for help. Of course dogs are not as valuable as humans and are "expendable" to save a humans life, such as a cop or military person, but what would you endure for your canine partner, your family member. I am not necessarily talking about "one of the dogs in your kennel". I'm talking about the one in your home, sleeping by your feet as you watch TV. Will you go to battle for him/her against tough odds? And just how much do you expect of him/her in a battle to save yur life? Nothing less than "everything"?

Romanticism aside, it would generally be better for both of us if we ganged up together on one attacker to attempt to subdue him rather than me relying on the dog completely. The only time I might ever leave a dog behind is if the life of a human being might be at stake; I value my life about the same as I value my dogs', but every one else is higher.

Well said. I may disagree that "everyone" is higher, but I get the point. And I love that word "romanticism" :)

Fuuny about that "gang up" comment. I agree with it, although most training has the dog doing all of the fighting. Wouldn't it be a "hoot" to see those overweight guys or underweight gals, joining in to battle the "helper" on the Schuntzund field or any other field :-) Most trainers I believe, would think that there is just as much likely hood of the dog biting the handler as there is of the dog biting the bad guy, in a "scrap".

How often have you been somewhere, Dew Right No Fear, and looked for a rock but one was not to be found? Just grass and trees, no solid stick (you can always find rotted sticks by the dozens that would break on a mosquito)...finding a handy "weapon" in a bad situation is usually not as easy as you describe. Just fighting beside our family canine member is not so simple either. Usually other human lives ARE at stake, even if none are present. If a mother goes up against a bear with her dog, and her child is left orphaned... should she slug it out with her dog against the bear? This dog may be sacraficing his life to save more lives than just hers. Being alive is not the same as having a life. How many people have lives so independent that the lives of their family will not be badly damaged by their death? I live in bear country. If a bear goes after my Jaks, I will do what I think I can to drive the bear away without being killed myself. Banging the camping cooking pans, honking the truck horn, running at it and yelling. (Honestly, I don't think I'll go camping again without a handgun. A bear grabbed a guy in his tent about two weeks after I camped in the same camp ground last summer...Oh, back to business....) If it is a mother bear with squalling cubs beside her, and she is killing my Jaks...I will probably run, because I know that she is going to kill me when she is done if I am still standing there without a gun, and I will have done nothing but throw my life stupidly away. I am definately not strong enough to heft a rock big enough to bash in the head of a bear...and I would also need to be super fast, because I know that BEARS ARE. They are so fast, they can charge a man who is standing there WITH a rifle in his hand, and kill him before he can get the business end pointed in the proper direction. My daughter will have no mother if Mrs. Bear eats Jaks AND me, and that is a bad thing for my daughter and I though I guess Mrs Bear would think it a fine meal. I actually have stood inbetween Jaks and a VERY BIG pitbull summer before last. It happened out in a pasture I used to own. Mr. Big Pitbull wanted to eat Jaks, and Jaks was stupid enough to think "Lemme go, I can take him!"...I led Jaks with one hand by the EAR (he was ignoring his collar to roar at the other dog and only an ear-hold impressed upon him that I was serious). I kicked the pitbull repeatedly every time it came within kicking distance as we slowly made it back to the outdoor kennels. I got Jaks into a pen, and then proceeded to smack the pitbull with a mop handle, which did impress him enough for him to SLOWLY STROLL TOWARDS HOME. God, what a tank! He was a pretty dog, it is a shame his owners let him roam like that. He wasn't a bad dog, or he would have bitten me when I kicked him. He just wanted to bite some GSD butt. It's a macho male thing...kind of like this thread! :-)~

Interesting discussion, makes us do some soul searching hhh ? Well I would find it very hard not to jump in the middle of some battle regardless the adversary. I view my dogs as my kids, have 2 daughters and 2 stepsons, but dogs are kids too, and I guess to be honest I would like to beleive anyway that I would jump in first and think later (sometimes seems to work that way in emergency mode anyway) Adrenaline is a funky little chemical and makes even the most meke of persons almost "super" human in strength and heart ie. courage. Can't honestly answer I guess until I am put into that position, I don't honestly know if my brain would process the odds, or if my gut would twitch and heart kick in to overdrive. would like to think I would, and certainly "feel" that way about my babies, But it's a difficult question to answer unless you've been there I guess. Like the Question though. :-)

DR&FNO: I have always wondered if I was truly tested, would I stand toe to toe with my dog or would I turn tail & run?.........if my house was on fire, would I be sure to find & bring my boon companion out with me or would I only be concerned with saving my own sorry ass? I hope I would prove as good a friend as you did when you were only a child, but I guess I'll never know unless I am actually faced with that situation. One thing I do know is in my eyes, my dog is equal to or better than most people I know, so I wouldn't sacrifice his life for a humans. Sorry if people think I'm bizarre, but that is just how I feel. I don't think of my dog as my child, but I do think of him as a brother.

Good posts and thoughts by all. Veronica: When I was about 15 years old, a bigger boy about 15, was beating up my 13 year old little brother. I was afraid of that kid and I ran home to get help. It turned out to not be a big deal as far as injuries go to my brother after all was said and done. The problem is, I NEVER got over the fact that I ran away and did not help my brother. I have never been able to come to grips with that in my mind and heart. I have never since that day, backed down from any man. Yes, maybe this is a "macho thread" in your mind, but to me it is about family and loyalty to each other and most importantly, being able to live with myself/yourself. We expect much from our canine family members (well, some of us do, to be honest, most just want a rug that licks:), and I just wanted to read the thoughts of those on this particular web site. There are worse things than death, at least to me. But then, all of my children are grown and my wife would get along just fine without me (that's a WHOLE different discussion:). I have no absolute responsibilities to my family other than being there for them in hard times. I guess I just went full circle because that is what this thread started about. Facing a bear to save my dog? Tough to do I admit. But then again, tough to live with the choices we make also (like when I ran away and my little brother got beat up)(he ended up becoming a bouncer in a bar in his early 20's, funny huh). As for the available weapon thingy. There is ALWAYS a weapon of some sort available, unless you are maybe swimming naked in the ocean. Your car keys, your shoes, your shirt (take it off and choke him/it with it. A little tip. If a bad dog is coming to get you, put your foot in his mouth. "Feed" it to him. Your shoes are the hardest thing on your body and it will give you a few seconds to think and try something else, like poking his eyes out with your car keys or finger. Or reaching for one of those "rotten sticks" and putting it into his eye. I have been in enough fights throughout my life to know that it is not the biggest or baddest that usually wins. It is the one who keeps his head, doesn't panic, and does what needs to be done. The ones who get angry and "go wild" can be beat by a smaller person who thinks clearly. That is why a professional boxer who weighs 140 pounds can kick the butt of a "wild" bar fighter who weighs 200 pounds. The boxer does not loose his cool. But I degress. oops, digress :-)

This is a very good post(question). I did go in battle, well to me it was battle to other's it might not be. Anyway, I took my male schutzhund training every week like normal, and the helper told me we were next for bite work. I put his harness on got the long line on him, and we started walking to the field. Well this lady had her dog in a wire cage and her vehicle's windows down half way and we were walking to the field and out of no where this female broke through her wire cage jumped out of the vehicle and with my dog's back and I turned away from her she jumped on top of him attacking his neck, and throat. I was trying to pull him back to make her lose her grip on him, and that didn't help so I grabbed her and kicked her and she started to run straight to her owner, because by then everyone heard the noise. When I was going after her, I was no longer hanging onto the long line, so when she went taking off to her mom, my boy basically said I don't think so and went after her. Someone called my boy over to them and was able to retrieve him. All and all no one got hurt, but the owner of the female didn't even come up to me and apologize or anything, so I was a little upset about that. I know longer go training with that club.

I attended a hick school when I was a kid. If you weren't part of one of the social sets there, they wanted to pick on you. There was no division between junior high and senior high, 7th grade attended classes in the same building as 12th grade. When I was in 9th grade, and I stood 5'4" tall, I got in a fist fight with a 6'1" 12th grade farm boy. I got beat, but he knew he'd been in a fight when we were done. He never liked me, but he did respect me after that. But still, I did not think I was going to die, either. What it takes to fight someone and maybe suffer some injuries and humiliation, and what it takes to face a situation that looks like life and death, with more emphasis on the death part, is totally different.