Sable vs Saddle Back - Page 1

I once had a judge say "I don't care about the color of a dog because colors don't work, the dog does" - SV Herr WILFRIED SCHELD. with that in mind, why is it that we do not see the Red/Black or Tan/Black in the higher level SchH trials, i.e Regionals, Nationals, ect.. When i first went searching for my current dog, i so wanted to find a pup that would grow into a beautiful red & black, big headed, big in height, powerful in their work with extremely high drives. As you can probably guess, i was laughed at and all breeders i spoke with, local and across the pond, kept saying "...well if you find one, let me know..." I have gone to a few different clubs around the southwest and when i do see the 'classic saddle back' GSD on the fields, it is obvious they do not have the intensity that their bi-color and sable counterparts have. I have even noticed this when i watch the Bundessieger videos, the dogs don't have the same intensity in their heeling and bite work, i have even seen a lot of these 'top' dogs fall off the sleeve.

Anyone have any insights to this??  I need to state that i am NOT trying to make this a Show line vs Working line debate. I really am curious though if "we" as a GSD community have accepted that Saddle backs dogs do not make high points so why bother with them.

Sure, they are show dogs they are bred for looks and not much else and no, I dont want to nor have the time to sit here and debate with the "experts" on show lines VS working lines, its a simple statement and a real one.

In a word,  Fero. 

There were working dogs that were black and red not that long ago (and they sure didn't look like show dogs.)  But Fero throws sables and it's hard to find a line that doesn't go back to him. 

The SV recognized this years ago and there were two years where they were telling competitors that they weren't going to put Fero progeny on the podium regardless.  Didn't work. 

These kinds of things go in cycles and I think we'll eventually start seeing some black and reds back out there. 
 

bzcz - When you say FERO are you reffering to Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich?

Koos Hassing of Tiekerhook kennels once asked the SV president when he would see a sable dog place in the higher levels (VA) of the Sieger show. He was told 'not while I am president of the SV!"

(If anyone remembers the exact quote, I've been trying to find it, to make sure I'm quoting him correctly.)

Yes

Cutaway, because those breeders and exhibitors have other priorities than demonstrating good working drive, strong courage and aggression. That's really the long and short of it. I say this as someone who owns, trains, and competes with a WGSL dog before anyone accuses me of being a WGSL hater ;)

Here is a black and tan male that I like... I am sure alot of people know of this dog....

BELSCHIK...

I wish I could throw a dumbell like Belschik's handler

Margaret N-J

I understand where you're coming from Cutaway, as I've been trying to find a nice big red/black to work with.I have looked at several litters and many are nice dogs, but they are big teddy bears, not serious competitors. My most humble opinion is that a lot of pet owners (not to disparage them) like the rich colors or long hair and a more "traditional" look of GSDs and so we've ended up with lots of those dogs that are a bit more docile.

While Belschik is a great looking dog, he was competing 20 years ago. A lot has changed since then.