DM Carriers ??? - Page 1

Who here has DM carrier dogs?  Do they use them in their breeding program?  What are your personal Results?  

Has anyone ever bred a dog with an OFA test result A/A to a dog that is clear?  Is that safe?

I am trying to find out more info on the breeding programs with these dogs.  Thank you!

i would still breed a carrier but only to a clear , i would never breed a A/A  

In theory the result of such a breeding would be 100% carriers

motocrista Said: Has anyone ever bred a dog with an OFA test result A/A to a dog that is clear?  Is that safe?

According to someone on a list that I read, she had more than one dog test clear and they ended up with DM. So she posted anyway.

 

The current DM DNA test was not developed to eliminate dogs from a breeding program; the intent is to not produce more "at risks". At risks and carriers can be used for breeding, they should be only bred to normals.

It's a simple recessive inherited as shown in the above punnett square. Affected = at risk; carrier = carrier; clear = normal. Breed an at risk to a normal 100% will be carriers, no need to DNA the resulting puppies. Breed a carrier to a clear 50%  normal, 50% carriers. There would be a need to DNA the puppies that are intended for breeding.

OFA admits that there have been a few cases of normals developing DM. Most GSD's that were diagnosed with DM at autopsy tested at risk. A post mortem is the only true way to diagnose DM, many other conditions and diseases mimic DM.

My current dog is a carrier. She was bred 2 times before I owned her and before she was tested. The first time to an unknown, 9 puppies, none of those puppies have been tested as far as I know. The second litter was the result of frozen semen from a dog assumed to have been normal. 5 puppies, 2 survived, both tested as carriers. Odds are that at least 2 of the puppies that didn't survive were normal.

 

 

 

 

Good post, Blitzen. And I would like to mention that OFA only accepts first generation from two clear as being "clear" without testing....the reason they don't go beyond first generation is because of the chance of MUTATION. That is why all the DNA testing of dogs for all the aflictions known and unknown will never ELIMINATE the afflictions tested for.....life is ever dynamic and by definition, not static.

Correct and OFA will not certify even one generation without DNA ID. I think it's a good tool, but hate to see it made into more than it is. I haven't looked at the OFA database of DM tested GSD's in quite a while. When I was researching it I saw that some of the better GSD's of all lines were obviously at risks since they never produced a normal but none the less they did produce some excellent dogs.  Most are dead now and I don't know if they ever developed DM or not. Odds are most did not. Not using a good at risk or carrier dog with a normal is the best example I can think of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

One friend had 2 DM dogs both sired by the same German V rated dog. The sire is dead now, was never tested to my knowledge and he never produced a dog that tested normal per the OFA database. A breeder who used him and his progeny extensively has got into a mess and has replaced a few more dogs that developed DM. She refused to use the DM test for a few years, now uses it to avoid producing more at risks.  The same thing with one of the top ASL dogs, no normals produced ever. However both these dogs lived long lives and didn't show any signs of DM but some of their progeny wasn't as lucky.

I am producing cleared by parentage for DM pups.

My pups are all closely linebred and I am going to have to look to outcross 

I am trying to develop my own lines because I want to be able to always have a well-bred

German Shepherd that doesn't come with a bundle of health problems.

I am not surprised anymore when someone calls and wants a pup from me and when asked "How old was your last GSD when it passed away?"  I am hearing 4 years, 5 years, 7 years, put down because he/she couldn't walk, died in it's sleep, and of course after hearing that I want to know where their dog came from, that info actually helps me in my breed program, and believe me they are not shy about all of the details.

 

If something appears in the two dogs I match up that I don't want then they are either paired up with another health tested mate, or just cut from the program.

Each dog is it's own individual, not all the pups carry the exact same genetic flaws/attributes as the next littermate....

This is a handsome pup I bred, he is owned by a police officer, he is a Theo/Tessie pup,
the man sends me a photo of this guy just about everyday, such a great way to begin the day!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mirasmom, do you DNA those "clear by parentage" or are you assuming their status? OFA will only issue a clear by parentage for one generation and then those dogs must have been DNA'd to establish that parentage. OFA assumes everyone is going to cheat and most of their rules are built around that assuption. Unfortunately dog breeders have give them good reason to have that concern.

Beautiful dog!!

Excellent question Blitzen!

What I do at the moment is DNA all my breeding stock, I thought I had Mr. Lucky's DNA on file, but

I had just DNA'd him for DM, so I have sent away for the DNA profile kit for him.

I do not DNA the dogs I have that are DM cleared by parentage, but I am keeping a pup at the moment from my Lucky/Jutta litter (Lucky is DNA N/N for DM and Jutta is clear by parentage for DM, but I totally 

understand where you are coming from, don't assume anything......

Seeing that I do all the same health checks down the line on my dogs, if something appears to be cropping up that should not be there due to OFA tests than I will be able to trace it back to the source....

Thank you for the compliment! Theo/Tessie pups were the best