Oversize GSDs-how does this affect show rating? - Page 1

Hi there. There seem to be so many large GSDs out there. Mine is so far "correct" but she is still young. Can you advise how it affects a show rating at all? Can it knock a SG adult to G? Or does it only affect a breed survey? Pls enlighten me. Thanks!

Does it affect that many of them? I know of a male that went VA at a Sieger show last year that is BIG, if he is not oversize he must be pretty damn close!

As of last year, all dogs older than one year are now measured in conformation shows, as well as at a breed survey. Yes, it can affect both placement in a show and KKL rating and knock it down to a KKL2. Or, it could make the dog not suitable for a breed survey rating. The SV, and hence the USA is trying to get back to proper size on dogs. Just how long this will take remains to be seen, but indeed, they have started to do something about it. At our events, we have had a judge measure a dog who was even younger.

Yes they have become much stricter in recent year(s) about measuring carefully and not giving the best ratings (if any at all) to oversized dogs. I suppose it still will depend on the individual judge/Koermeister and their personal preferences - if they like everything else about the dog they might not notice the oversized measurement, if it's not too much. Others might cut the oversized dog down to KKl-2 or not give a rating at all, as Hodie said. molly

More than 1/2 cm over is considered a major fault, but has been overlooked in otherwise correct and impressive dogs. This is a problem because we now see the vast majority of dogs being categorized as "large", and many are in fact over size. This has a negative impact on health, longevity, athleticism, etc. Dogs and bitches up to 1/2cm over are inelligible for kkl1, and a dog over 65.5cm or a bitch over 60.5cm is inelligible for kkl2, but many oversize dogs and bitches are listed "at the limit". A dog must be quite good to be successful in spite of being over size. When making breeding selections it is best to read the Koer data for wither height, and take "65cm" on "an der GroBengrenze" with a grain of salt. These can actually mean up to 67cm. While no judge will rule strongly against another judges assessment of the dog, young dogs will face tough scrutiny in early shows and initial breed survey. Best Wishes, Jonah

My dog Eagle was measured at 66 cm, he is 95 lbs lean, and sound/working at 9 years old. (he may be an exception to the rule of large dogs not being agile/athletic and sound for so long) He is V-KKl-1 and on his Koer report is recorded at 63 cm (recorded by the koermeister/judge). - the judge measured him and he was measured again for his KKL-1 for life. He is slightly oversized - I believe it is normal for judges to allow 1 cm over, or 1 cm under for females (have seen teeny females also getting KKl-1). I have noticed that Koermeister/judges do not give KKl-1 to smaller males, even if they are within the standard in height/size - and they also don't usually give KKl-1 to larger females, even if they are still within the size limit. As I said before, I think if the judge/Koermeister likes the dog in every other way, they will record the size as being within standard, even if the dog is slightly oversized. Just what I have seen for myself, though I know they are getting stricter - still will depend on the individual judge/Koermeister. molly

Just a note to add - I get people all the time who comment how large their old dogs were, 100+ lbs etc - I point at Eagle, who is quite a large dog - and say "he is at the absolute top of the standard for the GSD. Males should not be bigger/taller than that." However I have seen MANY show-line males that are taller than Eagle, some by more than 1 cm for sure. molly

Sometimes, I just love this place. Within one hour I have some fantastic responses. Thanks to all who have responded :)

Molly, Many people have no idea how much their dog weighs. Additionally, many American shepherds are long and hept FAT. This could account for some of the talk. In the showlines I know of V1 KKl1 females 65cm, But I suspect that things are improving. Best Wishes, Jonah

Can a dog over 65cm get Kkl-1 or is anything over 65cm automatically no better than Kkl-2? Diane