Anyone Have Experience With Pannus? - Page 1

This last past week, I noticed red little red splotches, which I am assuming is blood/blood vessel spots on the eyes of my 2 year old german shepherd "Roland". When I first noticed it earlier in the week, I didnt think much of it since I have seen something similar in my neighbors border collie and thought it would go away in a day or two. Now its been around four days and it hasnt gotten any better, but it hasnt gotten any worse either, the splotches are still there and the white part of his eyes are kinda red, but you cant really notice until you get right up close. I started to do some research, and I think he might have pannus based on what I observed, him being a German shepherd and all (although he doesnt have the cloudyness in his eyes). I dont really like being those nutcases that self diagnose based on research on the internet, but Im not sure how to handle the situation. His vision isnt affected (yet), and he is acting normal, but if it is a serious situation, I will take him to the vet in a heartbeat, It would be nice to have a second opinion, so if you guys have had experience with pannus, or have seen something similar to it, please let me know, I greatly appreciate any feedback, and I will see if I can get some pictures uploaded soon... -EG

My brother's GSD had pannus.  He had two different types of drops for his eyes -- one in the morning and the other in the evening.

Take him to the vet, better safe than sorry.  If it is pannus he needs to be treated as it can progress to blindness.  The earlier you can start treating it the better.  My brother took his to an eye specialist after his regular vet thought it was pannus.

I can get more detailed info from my brother about treatment if you wish.

We had a GSD with pannus.  He, also, needed drops in his eyes twice a day.  Keep Roland out of the sun until you know for sure what you are dealing with since sunlight will make pannus worse.  Like ZweiGSD already stated, the earlier treatment is started, the better.  Can you post a picture of what you are seeing? 

We also had a GSD with an agressive case of Pannus. He was on two types of drops, Prednisoslone acetate opthalmic 1% three a day and a compounded cyclosporin opthalmic ointment twice daily. Eventually we were able to phase the meds down to the drops twice a day and the ointment once daily.

Agree with the previous posters to keep your boy out of the sun and get one or two vet opinions asap.

Yep get doggie goggles and when he is outside put those on, I was also told stay away from large bodies of water during daytime as the glare can make the pannus worse, also UV.  Good luck itis not a disease that can be cured only managed with drops, my boy went blind from it before his 8th birthday.  Treatment only helps does not cure.  Nan

PS:  Also is supposedly heretiary.  Do either parents, siblings, g-parents have it?

Also I would see an opthamologist;  forget your vet they usually know nothing about eye disease.

I realised my rescue GSD had pannus fairly soon after we got her. We took her to an opthalmologist for a firm diagnosis and the correct treatment. She has the dark pigmentation in the outer bottom quadrant of each eye. She is on Maxitrol drops 1 X daily and Optimmune (cyclosporine) eye ointment twice daily. My local vet was kind of sitting on the fence and was only prescribing the Maxiyrol, but I knew she needed more than that to preserve her sight, so I got a referral.  We have to arrange a recheck in a month or two, to decide if she needs the stronger ointment with a higher level of cyclosporine, but they don't think she will. Her eyes were very cloudy to begin with, but have cleared significantly since beginning treatment in February.  It will be lifelong, but I think her sight will be OK, and she is 9 next month. I don't know how long she had it for previously.

It is also auto immune related.

There are also two kinds of pannus. the 2nd is atypical pannus and it expresses differently. Some dogs with atypical pannus merely get "red eye" where the whites of the eye become red but they do not get the film across the eyes that can cause the blindness .  There is an operation to remove the film but how often and successfully it is done I do not know,

While it s THOUGHT to be auto-immune the reality is we do not know. Its referred to as the GSD disease and not a lot of research has been done on it. The one thing that is known is that high intensity direct sunlight ( hot climates, high altitudes etc) increase the incidence and can mqke it worse. In all my years in New England never saw a case but in California know a number of dogs that have it.

The intensity of the disease and needs for meds vary with the dog, the age of acquisition varies - some dogs do not get it until very late in life. My Nemo, the dwarf has it. I'm not sure when he was diagnosed but he had it when he came to me at 6. He is now 15.75 (hoping and praying for the big 16 in August). His has seem to stabilize. I only ocassionaly need to treat with a 1% prednisolone drop BUT I  believe ( no hard evidence) that part of the reason this happened is because of the level of supplementation that I have him on to help with the skin and hair problems ( which are for the most part also a thing of the past) caused by the pituitary dwarfism.

You may want to try increase the level of omega 3's in his diet. Easiest way is through fish or salmon oil. I just use the Costco regular fish oil - seems to work fine and only $6-$8 for 400. I believe in always starting slow and working up. Fish oil for the most part falls into the category I call won't hurt might help which is a pretty safe supplementation. Start with one a day, then if you feed twice a day more to one each meal. More will depend on you, the dog and the disease. Nemo for the most part was supplemented once a day but he is only 32 pounds. Just recently I have upped his dosage for a variety of reasons. Another benefit of high dosages of good fats are that they can be inhibitory to cancer. You may also want to try some CoQ10 as a supplement to. While it is known primarily for its cardiac and circulatory support it is really a systemic support and has been a lynchpin in my success with Nemo's supplementation. I would suggest starting at 100 mg a day - you may want to try the fish oil first and hold this in reserve. You can also get Ubinquinol ( again Costco for both types) which is a more bioavail type of Coq10 tho my research suggests it is worth combining regular cOQ10 with the Ubinquinol ( 1 am , 1 pm).

However the first step to all this is an accurate diagnosis. While in humans older folks often get diagnosed by age ( well she is 80 don't you know) unfortunately GSDs are often diagnosed by breed. If its a GSD it must have CHD, DM, Pannus, EPI.  So they take the easy route and often misdiagnose.What your dog has may be a temporary problem cause by allergies or an irritation that you are unaware of. There are also several other eye diseases that occasionaly show up in GSDs so first step HAS to be a good exam by someone knowledgable and who is not prone to diagnosis by breed.

Some primary vets are very good with eye problems and can be a lifesaver in helping you get cost effective meds. If there is any question do go to a good ophamologist. Ask around not only your vet but other dog people. One of the ones in my area is not good at all and its a waste of time and money to go see him plus he rips you off on the price of the meds. The meds used for treating pannus IF that is what he has are human medicine and you may be able to get them thru some of the prescription drug programs available to humans. Check around on prices since they can vary radically from pharmacy to pharmacy. Also sometimes a compounding pharmacy can give you a better deal. The primary vet I have right now gives me the best deal but he's good like that on all his scripts. Also make sure to check the prices on 5,10, 15 ml bottles. Often significantly cheaper in the larger sizes but vet ophamologists almost always write for 5 mls.

By the way do you feed a lots of eggs?? This can sometimes cause spots in the eyes.

Good luck and let us know how it goes. 

All of my dogs have lipid deposits on their corneas, which my vet says does not interfere with their vision, & is caused by a diet high in fats, which is not necessarily bad.

My one girl has pannus, she is stable on 1 drop of prednisone eye drops to each eye daily. Her vision is ok, the pannus is visible, & when she misses her drops (like when I'm in the hospital ) it becomes very noticeable rather quickly.

I agree, vet visit ASAP to diagnose & start treatment, if you're not 100% comfortable with your vet, appt with vet ophthalmologist. And the fish oil that TIG mentioned may help, we do that too. The sooner you have a diagnosis, the sooner you can treat, the better his vision will be. Good luck!

jackie harris 

btw- excellent post TIG!