Understanding quality a dog - Page 1

Hi,

 

In almost all discussions on a dog's quality like natural agression, temperament, etc it seems we judge quality and traits of a dog based on its interaction with man, for example through its reation to something we do to it we say it is handler soft or we say it has fear or we say it has solid nerves.

Why don't we judge a dog based on its interaction with its own kind?

What does it mean if a certain dog stands its ground whe it is confronted by another dog but does not do same when confronted by a man?

What does it mean when a dog fights back when attacked by another dog but does not show same towards a man?

Which is really more correct, judging a dog based on its conduct with another dog or with the human?

 

Ibrahim

Because it serves our needs as humans, we judge it against that.

I certaintly judge dogs based on how they act around other dogs.  I do not expect a GSD to be a "dog park" dog.  I expect them to be social as young puppies, wanting to interact with other dogs and not getting overly defensive or scared of other dogs, but once they mature I do not expect them to want to play with other dogs or want to have anything to do with other dogs besides maybe a few "friends" or for breeding.  I have intact males and I expect them to live in peace with our *pack* dogs that they have grown up with (making exceptions for other intact males, not surprised if there are issues there) and I expect them to be neutral towards random dogs that are nearby. I do not fault my dogs one bit if they want to show aggression to a strange dog coming into our space/property or showing any sort of threat or challenge, but I won't tolerate a dog that I can't walk around in public with other dogs around minding their own business.  Most of my dogs do flyball (as well as Schutzhund and everything else) so there really isn't a more testing environment as far as having a large, strong (temperament) intact male GSD working off leash around a dozen other dogs all running, barking, chasing toys and people running and screaming. People ask me if my dogs are "dog aggressive" and I never know what to say, because really they are (they will not put up with random dogs getting in their face or space) but they also have appropriate thresholds and I have control over them so I have no issues doing flyball, agility, taking my dogs to public events, pet expo, etc.

True, but my question remains, what does it mean when a dog's reaction to another dog's action is not same to a man's same action?

Is it correct to judge a dog against its reacts to us?

Isn't it more correct to jusdge a dog's quality by watching how it interacts with other dogs or say to nature?

 

Ibrahim

Depends on what you want.  I know how I want my dog to react in either situation so I judge him against that.  I expect him to fight back when threatened and that's what he does.  Man, dog, alien, zombie.... if threatened, show aggression.  If attacked, fight back.

When we first moved into our house, a neighbor thought it would be a good idea to take his intact male Rottweiler over to "say hi to his new friends".  I was outside with my dogs when suddenly my GSDs were flipping out at the gate, not an excited "hey so-and-so is here!" bark but "Ima KILL you" bark, and there was this dumb guy who had walked up my driveway without asking, standing there with his Rottweiler and my GSDs were having none of it.  In contrast, I do foster work for a local rescue and occasionally start/raise a puppy for someone else and in all of those situations, I've never had fights.  I bring the dog or puppy into my house, put it in my yard, let my dogs out and the dogs who are playful (my mutts) play and my GSDs basically ignore the new dog but respect the fact *I* put the dog there and have no reaction since there is no threat, no challenge like walking onto the property and up to the gate.

That´s an interesting question -

I was interested in "real" dogs only my whole life, and all of them "stood their ground" , none of them was "dog friendly" ( although my males always were willing to make friends with females ). They were and are well educated, so no "accidents", but I think, that strong dogs are not willing to bow down that easily.
Important for me is, that they are able to stop a fight after beating the opponent, and that I´m more important than any challenge.

In one word "domestication" we humans have domesticated our dogs to the point of no return.  We have molded them into whatever we want in a breed which in turn definitely changes how they interact with us as well as their communication with their own species.  Nan

Nan, I don´t think that the German Shepherd is that far away from its wild brothers.
Males always try to beat other males ( only the strongest male will breed ).
Females are living in a hierarchy, too. Only the strongest are allowed to  get puppies.
People often are totally shocked, that their dog doesn´t "like" strange puppies, but in nature strange puppies not defeated by adults don´t live long.
This kind of pack order is older than the dog, it´s necessary for surviving, and only the strongest are able to reproduce.

Nice theory but if that were the case the breed would be in better shape as a whole without all the health/temperament/working/show line separation.  Domesticaion has not done this breed any favors and by that I mean we humans have basically screwed them up.  I wished they were more like wolves in the real world but that theory and lifestyle for our dogs of today is long gone.  Nan

That´s true, but the instincts of pack behavior and survival are still there in a lot of dogs.