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by clc29 on 22 March 2014 - 21:03
Hello Everyone,
About 10 days ago (on a Thursday) Ava broke her rear outside toenail clean off.
I have walked my yard and checked every possible crack that she could (highly unlikely) have caught the nail in. I found nothing, I have no idea how she did it. Of course it also happened minutes before we were leaving for a road trip....ugh. I took her to the vet immediately, because she was leaving puddles (about 5" in dia.) of blood on our patio. Scared the crap out of me because I couldn't see where it was coming from and I couldn't get it to stop. (For all who do not know my vet informed me that foot wounds bleed like head wounds) The vet soaked it in a betadine solution, put a medicated bandage on it, wrapped it up, put her on 150 mg of Clindamycin 2x a day and sent us on our way with a recheck appointment.
We made it until Sunday morning before Ava managed to get most of the bandage off. I wasn't too concerned at the time because she was under leash potty restrictions and it looked to be healing OK.
Fast forward to the recheck appointment and the reason for my post.
After discussing the injury and my future competition plans for Ava, with my vet, we decided to x-ray the foot. We were both surprised when the x-ray showed that not only was the nail completely gone but Ava had broken the tip of the last joint bone off as well. My vet went from casual concern to deeply concerned in the blink of an eye. She wanted to surgically remove the last joint ASAP due to the risk of bone infection. I disagreed, the wound is healing (very slowly), is not inflamed and didn't/doesn't have any foul smell or discharge. She did not rebandage it so I could keep a close eye on it.
We changed Ava's treatment course to add betadine and epsom salt soaks 2x a day for 3-5 minutes and added a hard cone of shame, which I promptly changed to a soft one :( In addition, I bought a set of protection boots to put on the foot when she goes outside for potty breaks.
Does anyone have any suggestions for a topical medication that can be either sprayed or applied on to help with the healing process?
Has any one had this happen? If so what was the final outcome of the toe? Does your dog show intermittent pain when worked hard?
Thanks.
Cheri
About 10 days ago (on a Thursday) Ava broke her rear outside toenail clean off.
I have walked my yard and checked every possible crack that she could (highly unlikely) have caught the nail in. I found nothing, I have no idea how she did it. Of course it also happened minutes before we were leaving for a road trip....ugh. I took her to the vet immediately, because she was leaving puddles (about 5" in dia.) of blood on our patio. Scared the crap out of me because I couldn't see where it was coming from and I couldn't get it to stop. (For all who do not know my vet informed me that foot wounds bleed like head wounds) The vet soaked it in a betadine solution, put a medicated bandage on it, wrapped it up, put her on 150 mg of Clindamycin 2x a day and sent us on our way with a recheck appointment.
We made it until Sunday morning before Ava managed to get most of the bandage off. I wasn't too concerned at the time because she was under leash potty restrictions and it looked to be healing OK.
Fast forward to the recheck appointment and the reason for my post.
After discussing the injury and my future competition plans for Ava, with my vet, we decided to x-ray the foot. We were both surprised when the x-ray showed that not only was the nail completely gone but Ava had broken the tip of the last joint bone off as well. My vet went from casual concern to deeply concerned in the blink of an eye. She wanted to surgically remove the last joint ASAP due to the risk of bone infection. I disagreed, the wound is healing (very slowly), is not inflamed and didn't/doesn't have any foul smell or discharge. She did not rebandage it so I could keep a close eye on it.
We changed Ava's treatment course to add betadine and epsom salt soaks 2x a day for 3-5 minutes and added a hard cone of shame, which I promptly changed to a soft one :( In addition, I bought a set of protection boots to put on the foot when she goes outside for potty breaks.
Does anyone have any suggestions for a topical medication that can be either sprayed or applied on to help with the healing process?
Has any one had this happen? If so what was the final outcome of the toe? Does your dog show intermittent pain when worked hard?
Thanks.
Cheri
by Jenni78 on 22 March 2014 - 22:03
For what might be the 100th time at least on this board, I will recommend Vetericyn Hydro-gel. Nothing speeds healing like it. Nothing.
Regarding the toe, one of my pups broke a toe as a young dog/older puppy and to my knowledge, has never indicated any lasting issues. She's pretty tough, so even if it does hurt her, she would likely not complain but it's certainly not hindering her in any way. She is now almost 5.
Regarding the toe, one of my pups broke a toe as a young dog/older puppy and to my knowledge, has never indicated any lasting issues. She's pretty tough, so even if it does hurt her, she would likely not complain but it's certainly not hindering her in any way. She is now almost 5.
by clc29 on 22 March 2014 - 22:03
LOL.....Thanks Jenni....I was thinking about vetericyn. Hadn't heard of the hydro-gel version.
Good to know about your pup. Ava is a very tough little girl also. She didn't show any sign of pain as she was jumping on Cisco and leaving blood puddles in her wake.
I'm hoping the end of the bone will calcify over because right now the pulpy part of the bone is exposed. I'm sure it's very sensitive and will continue to be so unless it has a hard shell to protect it.
Good to know about your pup. Ava is a very tough little girl also. She didn't show any sign of pain as she was jumping on Cisco and leaving blood puddles in her wake.
I'm hoping the end of the bone will calcify over because right now the pulpy part of the bone is exposed. I'm sure it's very sensitive and will continue to be so unless it has a hard shell to protect it.
by joanro on 22 March 2014 - 22:03
Fwiw, a broken bone which is not exposed, is not equal in severity as a broken OFF bone which leaves the broken end exposed. Why don't you want the vet to remove the broken/exposed bone? If the broken bone is removed to the healthy joint the chances of healing are better.
One of my husky X's broke his nail off the dewclaw on his front foot. After treating it for weeks, my vet decided to remove the toe, as the bone had become infected. He said we could treat it for months and a bone infection in a toe won't heal. So his toe was amputated. Kept it wrapped and clean and it healed fine.
If that was my dog with an injury as you described, I would have the vet work on it. A bone infection is serious.
One of my husky X's broke his nail off the dewclaw on his front foot. After treating it for weeks, my vet decided to remove the toe, as the bone had become infected. He said we could treat it for months and a bone infection in a toe won't heal. So his toe was amputated. Kept it wrapped and clean and it healed fine.
If that was my dog with an injury as you described, I would have the vet work on it. A bone infection is serious.
by Jenni78 on 22 March 2014 - 23:03
Whoa...wait a minute. You said it was broken revealed by xray...now you say "the pulpy part is EXPOSED"? Yikes!!! That is scary...I'd seriously consider letting the vet do as they recommended, though if she's on antibiotics your chances of bone infection are less.
by clc29 on 22 March 2014 - 23:03
Jenni.....Well yeah if you break the nail totally off you get an exposed hole in the toe.
In Ava's case she also took the end of the bone off with the nail, so more exposed area.
Joan.....If it was a dew claw I would do the same. My vet told me that it is possible that the end of the toe may calcify over since it's such a tiny piece and she did not think Ava was in danger of infection for now. That's part of the reason I hesitate to do surgery. Also, she wants to take 2 joints not just the one that's broken off.
That leaves only one joint in the toe. If she would just take that tiny joint, I would have considered it (and probably done it).
I'm thinking about getting a second opinion from the ortho Dr. that operated on Cisco.
Ava is going to be my competition IPO dog and I'm not sure how taking the bone out of that outside toe will affect her balance and push off in her rear end or how much stress it will put on the other toes.
In any case, I'm not willing to sacrifice Ava's health and if it looks like it's not going to heal properly I will have the joint removed.
I will try to get some pics and post them, so you guys can see what I'm talking about.
In Ava's case she also took the end of the bone off with the nail, so more exposed area.
Joan.....If it was a dew claw I would do the same. My vet told me that it is possible that the end of the toe may calcify over since it's such a tiny piece and she did not think Ava was in danger of infection for now. That's part of the reason I hesitate to do surgery. Also, she wants to take 2 joints not just the one that's broken off.
That leaves only one joint in the toe. If she would just take that tiny joint, I would have considered it (and probably done it).
I'm thinking about getting a second opinion from the ortho Dr. that operated on Cisco.
Ava is going to be my competition IPO dog and I'm not sure how taking the bone out of that outside toe will affect her balance and push off in her rear end or how much stress it will put on the other toes.
In any case, I'm not willing to sacrifice Ava's health and if it looks like it's not going to heal properly I will have the joint removed.
I will try to get some pics and post them, so you guys can see what I'm talking about.
by clc29 on 22 March 2014 - 23:03
Here's a pic. The redness higher up is from the medicated bandage she was in over the weekend. I clipped all of the hair off around the injury so I could see it better and for sanitary reasons.
Ava in her soft cone. thoroughly disgusted.
Ava in her soft cone. thoroughly disgusted.
by joanro on 23 March 2014 - 00:03
A second opinion is a good idea, and follow their advice.
The dew claw was no cake walk. He was on antibiotics for two weeks and the bone still got infected. He was a six or seven year old dog, at the time, who weighted about 80 or 90 pounds. And he was my wheel dog in the team. When a dog runs, the dew claw hits the ground, so amputating it was major. The out side toe won't cause as much problem as a center toe. But you don't have a choice if they need to work on it.
I have a pup with three toes on her back foot...her momma accidentally pinched off her second from the outside while she was being born, breach. There is absolutely no difference in the way she moves on that foot, and she can jump straight up from flat foot start, easily. I had her with me yesterday while I was trimming branches off the Leland Cypress trees with the chain saw. Every time I lifted a branch to toss over the fence, she would jump at least four feet in the air to grab the dern thing, pulling it back to the pile. She's eight months old and no problems with three toes. I realize a grown dog will have adjustments to make, but maybe they can clean it out. That looks like what my husky's toe looked like. And he didn't lick it , causing a prob.
The dew claw was no cake walk. He was on antibiotics for two weeks and the bone still got infected. He was a six or seven year old dog, at the time, who weighted about 80 or 90 pounds. And he was my wheel dog in the team. When a dog runs, the dew claw hits the ground, so amputating it was major. The out side toe won't cause as much problem as a center toe. But you don't have a choice if they need to work on it.
I have a pup with three toes on her back foot...her momma accidentally pinched off her second from the outside while she was being born, breach. There is absolutely no difference in the way she moves on that foot, and she can jump straight up from flat foot start, easily. I had her with me yesterday while I was trimming branches off the Leland Cypress trees with the chain saw. Every time I lifted a branch to toss over the fence, she would jump at least four feet in the air to grab the dern thing, pulling it back to the pile. She's eight months old and no problems with three toes. I realize a grown dog will have adjustments to make, but maybe they can clean it out. That looks like what my husky's toe looked like. And he didn't lick it , causing a prob.
by Jenni78 on 23 March 2014 - 00:03
I had a dog rip off a nail from the base. It actually grew back, believe it or not. I had to put a tourniquet on it to get it to stop bleeding. I kept it clean and kept a sock on it (easier said than done) but while I expected it to heal, I never expected it to grow back!!!
I was picturing worse when you said "pulpy part exposed". It looks just like how I would expect it to look and I agree with abx and caution, but I wouldn't wait too long before exploring plan b, and having the bad tip removed.
My bf's Pit suffered similar but worse injury, requiring 2 toes on her back foot and their ligaments and tendons to be surgically rejoined. She cut her foot badly on our storm door after my lovely GSD pup took the trim covering the sharp edges off. She was jumping 5' up and down like a pogo stick and her leg got caught on the way up and slashed wide open. There was exposed bone and tendon and she had to have emergency surgery. She kept the bandage on 48 hours of the 8 weeks she was supposed to be laid up. After the 3rd trip back to the emergency vet, we gave up and took the conservative "keep it clean" approach and gave up on the splints. She is highly active- she dock dives, hunts pheasants, climbs trees, flyball-type stuff...she's a nut. The only indication that there was every anything wrong w/those toes is that the nails grow longer indicating she doesn't use them as much. There is NO indication in her performance, balance, or movement. She is 4. That happened when she was 1. The only time you can tell is when it's very very cold, she will hold that foot up periodically, but remember, this wasn't just a toe injury- her last 2 toes were nearly completely severed and she had extensive tendon and ligament damage as well. I see no reason to think Ava would fare worse with that being just a single joint on one single toe.
I was picturing worse when you said "pulpy part exposed". It looks just like how I would expect it to look and I agree with abx and caution, but I wouldn't wait too long before exploring plan b, and having the bad tip removed.
My bf's Pit suffered similar but worse injury, requiring 2 toes on her back foot and their ligaments and tendons to be surgically rejoined. She cut her foot badly on our storm door after my lovely GSD pup took the trim covering the sharp edges off. She was jumping 5' up and down like a pogo stick and her leg got caught on the way up and slashed wide open. There was exposed bone and tendon and she had to have emergency surgery. She kept the bandage on 48 hours of the 8 weeks she was supposed to be laid up. After the 3rd trip back to the emergency vet, we gave up and took the conservative "keep it clean" approach and gave up on the splints. She is highly active- she dock dives, hunts pheasants, climbs trees, flyball-type stuff...she's a nut. The only indication that there was every anything wrong w/those toes is that the nails grow longer indicating she doesn't use them as much. There is NO indication in her performance, balance, or movement. She is 4. That happened when she was 1. The only time you can tell is when it's very very cold, she will hold that foot up periodically, but remember, this wasn't just a toe injury- her last 2 toes were nearly completely severed and she had extensive tendon and ligament damage as well. I see no reason to think Ava would fare worse with that being just a single joint on one single toe.
by clc29 on 23 March 2014 - 01:03
Thanks Joan.
I trust the ortho vet and my normal vet but, she (normal vet) does not have the same level of experience as the ortho (obviously).
Sorry, did not mean to make light of your dogs injury. I hate nail injuries. They are so painful for the dogs. Also, I didn't realize that a dog uses his dew claw in a turn.
Ava uses hers like fingers when she wraps her paws around my arm.
Good to hear your girl is OK with three toes. She sounds like my Ava....100 miles an hour on two or four legs...LOL
I trust the ortho vet and my normal vet but, she (normal vet) does not have the same level of experience as the ortho (obviously).
Sorry, did not mean to make light of your dogs injury. I hate nail injuries. They are so painful for the dogs. Also, I didn't realize that a dog uses his dew claw in a turn.
Ava uses hers like fingers when she wraps her paws around my arm.
Good to hear your girl is OK with three toes. She sounds like my Ava....100 miles an hour on two or four legs...LOL
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