Papillons? Any experience? - Page 1

Does anyone have experience with Papillons?  What are your thoughts on them?   How difficult is their coat to maintain?   

Little dogs in general have a tendency to be difficult to train and barkers.  How is this breed in both areas?

I have never owned one but there are lots of them around here doing extremely well in obedience and agility. They are super easy to train, not bad barkers for a tiny dog, and very social.  Their coat is easy to deal with too. If I ever had to get a tiny dog, this is the breed I would get.

i have also seen some poorly bred ones that are a nightmare mentally and physically,  but the good ones are very nice.

One of my friends breeds them. They are very easy going they actually don't shed as much as a GSD and are EXTREMELY trainable.  Each dog is different but her companion male is very laid back when told to be.  He was was easily trained in AKC obedience, rally, and agility. Vonrivera

So what kind of things do I look for in a breeder?  For example, on GSDs, I would look for OFA, DM, does the breeder work the dog.

There seems to be a huge size range for Paps, some are tiny only slightly bigger then a long coated Chia, and other are huge, like over 15" and not at all toy like. One of the ladies at my club breeds the tiny show dog sized ones. And while they are cute from afar, her's a freaky little nerve bags. They quiver and attract the attention of bigger dog that are just determined to kill them for being messed up little freaks. They do OK in agility and suck at obedience. Just too freaky.
Now there is another lady who has a bigger pap, like pet store sized pap from a rescue. And he is nice and friendly, out going and fun. His obedience is very good, though he is a bit independent minded and sometimes makes up his own rules.
Currently my all breed training club is over run with Paps, i keep saying we are going to spray for this infestiation. :p
In a breeder i would look for an active person who multitaks their dogs. Don't go for just show, get one from someone that like to title in as many different things as possiable. Beware of bad knees, open fontenels in the smaller ones and liver shunts. Because they are tiny, their teeth suck and need regular cleanings. They do require a weekly brushout as they can get matted up and they shed quite a bit for a small dog, but if you have shepherds it's nothing like them. They can be extreamly barky, flighty and fearful. Early training and not coddling is very importiant. Treat them like real dogs. Not wind up toys.
And most i have met do not like children.
Personally i'd never have one, but it's not because i don't like toy breeds. It's just that a Min Pin is a much nicer sport toy breed.
Fry

Good to know that they come larger than a toy.  If I consider it, the larger size would be the options. 

Barky would be a concern.  Going to a rescue might be the better way, as a foster will be able to tell me if they are barky.  The one I saw in my agility class is very quite.   Never hear a peep.

Long time out, lots of time to research.

Also, for teeth, wouldn't just a regular chew toy and a rope toy generally take care of the issue?  I have never owned a small dog and I generally ignored my Mom's chiwawas (sp), so I have no idea.

I also notice that many small dogs have a weight issue.  Is this common in this breed?

my sister has two. One came from a very respected breeder who also owned the westminster winner, he's got a C-ATE 2 in cpe agility , working on his mach..he's a great little dog friendly with those he knows, kinda aloof with those he doesn't..Her other one, is much bigger than the first, and came from an 'ok' breeder , not someone I would buy from but it was her choice. He's a maniac, and is probably faster than the border collies you see out there..He had luxating patella's (something the small breeds are known for), younger, he had surgery and is still tearing up agility fields..

Grooming isn't a biggy, she's keeps them in top shape tho...they don't really shed..They are big time barkers tho! My gsd lets them maul her all the time, she's really good with them, but those little suckers take advantage of her:)

I've owned two of them and know others who have had them too.  My experiences with Paps have been polar opposite depending on which of my Paps we're talking about. 

Pap #1, who I still have, is Zeke.  He is 13 years old and is just a sweetheart.  I got him from a BYB.  He's on med-larger size of a Pap, but within the standard at just about 9.5 pounds and 10 inches at the shoulder.  Zeke has been a pleasure to own. He has always been a good learner, and his desire to please is outstanding.  He's on the sensitive side of the spectrim but not, in any shape or form, a nervy little ball of fear.  He used to be my demo dog for my business, until he started losing his hearing.  He's now nearly 100% deaf.  Zeke was always a good watch dog, but never yappy.  Not sure if he would have turned out to be a yapper, as I trained him to bark on command when he was really young.  His health has never been very good though.  He used to poison himself on rotting grass roots by digging them up and eating them (he's super food obsessed) so he'd get a fugi-toxin that caused kidney damage that, I believe, is permanent.  His ears were a bit of an issue when he was about a year old.  One day a HUGE chunk of stuff came out of one ear.  Not sure what it was, but he didn't have a yeast infection and was taken in and checked and all they could tell me was there was some kind of inflammation.  No infection or anything.  His teeth started breaking off for no apparent reason when he was about 3.   They were not rotten.  They would just break off at the gum line.  It was weird.  So now he's got almost no teeth and is prone to mouth infections.  All in all he's been a great little dog but expensive in the vet care area.  His coat was always fabulous and luxurious.  Grooming was not as bad as you'd think.  Once a week I brush him out well and trim nails, once a month or so I clip his foot hair and trim his butt (prone to dingleberries).

Pap #2.  Ugh. Terrible story with him.  Got him for my sister from a show breeder who had loads of success.  His name was Mickey.  WAS because I had to put him to sleep at 5 years old due to behavior/neurological issues.  Mickey was my sisters dog until he starting biting people in her home and where she worked before he was a year old.  He'd visciously chase down her clients.  The only reason he was tolerated was he was just SO tiny.  We're talking about 4 pounds max for his weight.  When he'd come after you his growling sounded like a bee.  It was funny, sorta.  My sister gave him to me for training and four years later he was still with me.  Mickey bonded to my husband.  He hated most other people.  Fearful is an understatement.  In time I came to realize he wasn't my dog, he was my project. His behavior was so bizarre that I consulted with a real bona-fied dog behaviorist.  The Dr. told me that Mickey was going to keep transferring his extreme avoidance behavior to new things.  That's exactly what happened too.  Once I got him to stop running to his crate when he tought I was going to ask him to do something, he started jumping on the couch to pee instead. Over and over one behavior improved and another more strange one would take it's place.  Mickey was easier to groom than Zeke because his hair was shorter and thinner.  His teeth were a huge issue though, nasty, nasty teeth.  No amount of brushing kept his mouth healthy.  He was another walking vet bill.  His life was sad and when I held him as he was euthanized I realized it was the first time in his life that he'd ever had a relaxed moment -- just before his heart stopped beating.  :(

I love my Zeke he's been a pleasure to own, even with some issues.  They are very easy to train and retain training very well too.  Just make sure you check for health issues frequently.

 

Good point about the health issues.  Is there any kind of a forum or database like we have here for GSDs?