The end of Schutzhund - Page 9

Well thanks for clarifying that Johan;  I cannot believe
it took 79 responding posts before we got the facts on 
where this comes from !   [Passe Wikipedia 2004 ref]

OK folks, this one isn't a battle about some other
country's legislation - leave that on the back burner
for next time !

So the FCI has been influenced by the ARtists ?

Right, where is the campaign from the Training Clubs
and individual owners / handlers, decoys/helpers, etc ?
What if anything has the SV / WUSV to say about the
FCI's latest move - did its reps contribute to or oppose that
decision ?  Or is it keeping quiet and just continuing to
do its own thang and hoping the FCI gets sorted out by
someone else ?  Just how much influence does the FCI
have in America anyway ?  As the UK isn't part of it, I
do not forsee the IPO taking place here changing to include
this FCI ruling - any other Brit members still with us who
have an opinion on that ?  (I know some of you still lurk
out there !)

Jim Engle may choose to just use this as fodder for his book,
but surely someone wants to do something practical ??

HM, you said about ANYTHING. So now you are going to insult me for fighting against over legislation in my county? You are against TAXING through licensing but that's ok, because you are RESPONSIBLE dog owner and won't evade the tax? It's ok for you to fight against a tax but for me to fight it, you insult me and say "it had to be one about money, didn't Joan?" what a hypocrite.......Two dollars per dog isn't going to bankrupt anyone, it's the over- regulation we were all fighting against. They start with a small, seemingly innocuous legislation and it snowballs from there.

SV gave up control of the sport to the FCI. FCI doesn't care whether or not IPO tests the GSD for breed worthiness. It's all about PC with the FCI. FCI is in the wheelhouse.....that's why there is no more Schutzhund (protection dog) but instead FCI has changed it to IPO (international test regulations ).

Not insulting you at all Joan;  sorry that you took it that way.  Just observing
that we can more usually muster the appathetic masses to get a bit interested
when their pockets are involved.  I am sure that, as a Shepherdite, you had
less monetary motives !  ( As do I, in re dog licenses.)   Let alone your other
personal politics about over-legislation.


As for whose jurisdiction we are opposing re stick hits,
can I refer you to Susie's posts on page 2 ...

Apology accepted, HM. But let me be clear, it was the legislation that was the objection, LAISSEZ-FAIRE !! There was a FEDERAL law proposed that would have required ALL live stock including pet pigs, sheep, etc to be ear tagged and registered on a federal data base which all of us who would have been affected fought vigorously and won.
Btw, I posted about 8 posts above Johan where all this mess is coming from.

It looked like and insult to me too.
 

The SV, USCA, FCI, DVG ect.ect. have not done shit to make this any better from what I can tell. I sent them money for years and supported clubs for years. Not anymore, that is my protest until they do better. If they won' work for their money I will fire them from my money. I hope they lose their job and others will be willing to do something, even if it is wrong but just put in the effort.

The ADBA...The American Pitbull registry did the same thing, lack of effort. Now look at the breed, band in many cities you can't hardly buy home owners insurance if you own one.

It is a small minority that started "gay rights, save the wales,save the trees, ban on fighting dogs and chickens, horse meat for human food,laws against spanking your children and the list goes on and on.Hell if you do not like those things DON'T DO IT.
I personally think that eating "pork" is one of the nastiest things you can put in you mouth, but you should be able to eat what you want. 

I bet the dog organizations are bigger then the organizations that cause all of these restrictions. If they want to stay in business they had better fight back. There is power in numbers our dog organizations have the power and numbers, they need to get off of their lazy butts and do something.

We all have our opinions, and some of them are very strong but if you want to cut down all of your trees why should I try to stop you.
 

Sadly Paul that does not appear to be happening;  I'm sure
you are right, that if AKC, the KC, WUSV, various breeders associations
and the Training Clubs etc all pulled together, there might be some
result in overturning the decisions of the FCI.  But I don't see it happening ?
Meanwhile, one member - one withdrawn subscription certainly isn't going
to make any impact, [even 'times 200' or so, IF that many individuals follow
your lead.]

I really wasn't insulting Joan.  She and I probably disagree on many things
regarding too much or too little regulation / legislation, generally, so I may
not have concurred with her campaign, in her circumstances;   but I do
oppose licensing - I'm just talking here about DOG licenses, she didn't at
first say how wide this particular piece of legislation would apply !   I really
was only talking about the fact that the few times many people will stand up
and protest something is if whatever it is will cost them money, didn't either
include or discount Joan herself in that.  I can see a LOT of other vested
interests in that particular piece of legislation if farmers were involved, not
just dog people.  Mind you, in the UK we mostly have accepted those measures
because with national registration and ear tagging we can trace the source and
the medication of the meat on our plates, so consumers didn't appeal against
it - and farmers may have made some protests but I don't remember them being
very loud.


Joanro, blame the time difference !   Seriously, the reason I query whether the
Wiki piece was a full explanation of the stick hits thing is as follows:
1  Wikipedia is notoriously inaccurate sometimes;
2  It reported the ['overall'] decision from 2004.  Now we are in 2013, I see
nothing specific about later additional changes, to the sticks or anything else.
3  Because I have this isolated view of the situation, being IN Europe but NOT
subject to the FCI (for anything, really, except occasional Judges coming here
from Italy etc), and we [as far as I'm aware, 'all'] do things the way they still do
in Germany, if they are still using stick hits in Germany (despite 'handing control
of the sport to FCI')  then we'll still use them here in our IPO set-up.  The Germans
are being very quiet about dropping the stick, if they have.  [Does not sound like they
have, reading what Susie posted.]  I still do not understand the comparitively recent,
unpublicised, involvement in IPO of the FCI, when it was never bothered before
about Schutzhund competition;   nor do I understand why the USA afficianados
want to take so much notice of a European body;  they surely don't have to ?
4 What about Chvdberkt's statement, Page I, that it IS a question of legislation ?

SV turned the sport over to the FCI. F$$ k the FCI and the SV, they have not done a wonderful job.
HM, y'all have mad cow, that's understandable wanting to trace origin of beef in your country. Here, there is beef packaged and imported to US from more countries the I can keep track of. So I don't eat commercial meat. The tagging on animals here was for the government to keep tabs on who owns what...nothing to do with where my goats and pigs might end up. It did not only involve farmers, but EVERY ONE who owned hoofed animals (except horses). Even if they were for personal use.

This is a weird complex here in the US where people with GSDs must do as the SV does...only
they evidently haven't realized that the SV turned the sport of what used to be Schutzhund over to the FCI, who has since watered it down so much that even it's name no longer has anything to do with protection dog. Therefore why would the FCI want the sport to reflect the qualities required of a protection dog? So, stick hits are not cool by AR crowd, and the FCI isn't going to argue the case...just throw it away and the hell with the breed.

Well Joan I can say this for sure, Trooper ( a young dog that I got from Joan) will be tested, using a stick, a whip and what ever else comes to mind to prove he is what he is. Frankly I am looking forward to it. He is a blast of a young dog.