buyer bashing - Page 1

i see a new trend in the dog world - blaming and bashing the buyer - like all buyers are expected to "do their research" an some how know what they don't even know ie, before purchasing a pup they supposed to for starters;  hang around at schuts clubs for a few years and talk to the folks (assuming they even heard of schuts, most never have), study pedigrees and gain an intimate knowledge of the various lines/peds/sub-breeds/sport/"old style/WGSL/WGWL/Czech/WGWL/ASL..........(like most buyers even know there is the breeds within breeds within breeds to even consider), be some kind of canine medical expert before getting your first dog hips/elbows/heart/spine/DVM/ABC.....then know and feed the precise potassium/calcium ratio or it is the buyers fault for CAUSING hip displasia, be an accomplished experienced trainer BEFORE you even own your first dog or the dog will be a shitter BECAUSE you the buyer failed to socialise it/bring out it's drives/too much training/not enough training/wrong training /could not READ the dog........trusted someone and is now a "WHINGER" cos they sent money and have got no dog/wrong dog/sick dog/no papers.....

not even scratching the surface.....


all the buyers fault no less - what is the PDB, Pardoning Dishonest Breeders?

Hunh?

If this is about the Wolfgang Rader post, vk4gsds, the OP didn't even indicate that he'd purchased a dog from that guy--just posted a bunch of allegations and claims the guy owes him a bunch of $$$, but nowhere is it stated that said monies are owed for anything dog-related...

But yes, it goes both ways--there are bad sellers and there are bad buyers; both the buyer and the seller need to handle the transaction like the business transaction it is, with everything CLEARLY and PLAINLY spelled out in a written contract signed by both parties. Most buyers put more time, effort and research into buying a washing machine than they do into the purchase of a living creature that will share their dwelling, sleep on their beds, interact and make an impression on their children, and will love them and needs just as much love in return.

not related to any specific post, certainly not the one you mentioned.

yr analogy to a washing machine altho an appeal to emotion sux big time - buying a washing machine or the latest sex toy off e-bay (did i just say that) comes with an in built body of law in relation to retail trade protecting the purchaser by any number of enforceable federal, state and international laws in any jurisdiction.

vk4gsds, actually, you just made my point for me.  Yep, when you buy a washing machine, there's a huge company that stands behind the product [or is supposed to, at least], there's a clearly-written warranty that you get right up front when you make the purchase, and there are certain legal protections the buyer gets [though most are rather limited and primarily address fraud, bait-and-switch sales tactics or consumer safety provisions] automatically.  All of that is standard, regardless of the brand the buyer chooses, and yet STILL buyers put more into researching that purchase than they do before buying a dog.  Given that there is a significant limit as to how much 'quality control' the seller is able to exercise when it comes to the the health, temperament, soundness and longevity of the living 'product', and the legal protections are scant, it seems only logical that a purchase the offers less protection should be given ever GREATER consideration and investigation.

 Regarding your eBay purchases, all I can say is you certainly do like to live on the edge, vk4gsds!   Just cause they say 'new w/o box' doesn't mean it's always true...

VKGSD -

Vk-most of those that criticize here are those thhat think the 'average' person or family have no business owning a German Shepherd if you are not going to work the dog,
Therefore, yes,you need to get the best dog,from the best breeders.And you damn well better have done your research.
A Geman Shepherd not bred to have over the top drive, is not a correctly bred dog anyway...
And as for those of us that do not care that a family is going to get a nice stable,helthy,active dog, to enjoy many years togeather...
Well,we just suck...
Despite the fact that we are breeding healthy dogs that .conform to the standard, and not afraid to stand behind what we breed

The way the breed was intended, a good working dog should be a good family dog!!!!, a good family dog is not necessarily a good working dog. Good breeders and beneficial breed people strive to breed good working dogs that also make good family dogs. Some people are breeding dogs that are too over the top for family and too soft to work.....Both, Both! Both, are faulty in my opinion. If a person is breeding sound working dogs that make good pets we should support them. Working temperament that can't settle may be good for working, but is not what reputable breeders should be striving for, pet temperament that won't work is good for families but is not what breeders should be breeding for. Let's not get it twisted in our pity party. Unfortunately, to the OP, it is necessary to do research these days or rely on sound advice in purchasing a puppy anymore......but there are breeders out there that are producing fine breed specimen that are sound for family and work!

+1 to Gustav. If your pets cannot work and your working dogs are not also the family pet,  you're falling short of the mark of a correct GSD. There is a spectrum, sure, but "can this high drive pup also calm down and be a pet?" is a test I ask myself about each pup/litter when evaluating. The opposite should also hold true in terms of those whose focus is more on pets. CAN THEY WORK? 

vk4gsd, there ARE just as many buyers undeserving of a GSD pup as there are sellers undeserving to be selling them. Truly a 2-way street in that regard.

some of these analogies work only partially. Buy a washer machine, keep it for 13 months, use it every day with too much weight per washer load and think the maker is at fault? Buy a washer machine and complain it does not dry the clothes? I think the original breeders kept their sheep herding dogs too busy to worry much about it being a great house dog. The pet dog is a relatively ''new'' phenomenon. In the way back days if that dog '' don't hunt'' or '' don't herd'' that dog didn't eat so that dog didn''t breed. My experience is that in a well bred litter there will be a percentage which will be of the correct behavior and temperament to be pets. An educated breeder will direct a buyer to that animal. In the way back time, A Sheep herder simply got rid of the dog that did not work. No pet homes meant no Back yard breeders. We should strive to all be good ambassadors of the breed and teach the newbies what dog to pick and then how to raise it. 

...everytime i see a post to this effect (nothing personal towards vk4gsd) but it makes me want to say...
Great, all that is nice and dandy except what happens to the dogs that are not good enough (regardless if buyer gets "stuck" with one or breeder gets "stuck" with one) people like me end up pulling them from shelters, getting them off craig lists or even get them dropped off in our yards, spending thousands on bad hips, rehab, other expenses because buyer didnt like the dog, or breeder could not sell it....
Come on people all the bitching and complaining aside these dogs end up going somewhere....... with someone......i have 4 of someone's unwanted dogs, I am not complaining I would not trade them for the world but hell I would love to have a dog of a good breeding, with steady nerves...but what would happen to those who are in shelter? or get dumped?
.....buyer or seller....if they are "rehoming" their not good enough dog by passing it off onto someone else....they are all in 1 category in my eyes....selfish bastards who are not thinking of a dog or where it would end up!...and i am sorry but a transaction of sale on a dog is not the same as a sale on a washing machine, no one has to rescue your underperforming machine, x rays it, feed it, schedule a surgery for it......

this is a loosing argument i know, and that is why I usually do not even bother commenting on threads like it...