Dummy Corner - Page 1

This is a corner for newbies and people wishing to get an answer for a question without making an individual post of their own, ask questions, even if they might look stupid, to the experienced that you wish to know the answer to.
Who ever likes to can ask his/her question here after previous question had been answered fully. Experienced guys: be helpful and answer our questions, and please do not make humor of us  .


I will start


Guarding is genetics?
You can only develop it through training, but if it's not there, it will never be there?

Fight drive is one against human and brother dog?
What do you call a dog which is ready to fight another dog but declines to fight a human?

What do you describe a 2 year old dog who no matter what you agitate him he sits down and does not react at all, no bark, no attempt to bite, nothing?

Ibrahim

1) Guarding is genetic:  Guarding what? The home? His/her owner?

Suspicion of strangers is mostly genetic. However, most dogs will bark when a stranger comes on their territory. It's what happens next that distinguishes a guard dog from an alarm dog.  The alarm dog will just keep barking until its owner shows up and tells it to shush. The guard dog will physically prevent the person from coming closer by barking louder and more aggressively and blocking their path. This may escalate into an actual attack.

2) Fight drive is one against human and brother dog?

Are you saying the fight drive against humans is the same as fight drive against another dog? Not sure what you are asking.

What do you call a dog which is ready to fight another dog but declines to fight a human?

A dog with good sense?

What I would say to this is a dog should see its handler as the alpha. This means it likely WILL NOT fight another dog when the handler is present. It will expect the alpha to take charge and sort out the situation. If the alpha is NOT present, and the other dog is really challenging it, that's a different story.

Where attacking a human is concerned. a well-trained dog should not do this unless it has been TRAINED to do so, and then, only on command. The exception would be a trained guard dog/personal protection dog.

Domestic dogs should NOT attack humans. In fighting dogs like pit bulls, any dog that turns on its handler is immediately culled. And I don't mean just kicked out of the breeding program!

3) What do you describe a 2 year old dog who no matter what you agitate him he sits down and does not react at all, no bark, no attempt to bite, nothing?

I'd call it a golden retriever. Seriously, what sort of agitation? Does the dog have any play/prey drive at all? Is the agitation maybe pushing the dog into defense instead, and overwhelming it?  (Okay, not likely, as you said the dog shows no response at all.)  But I'd say it has to be one of those two thing. Either the dog has no or very low play/prey drive, or it is being overwhelmed by the agitation, and doesn't want to respond.



 

I think Hired Dog got right what I was asking.

Sunsilver, pardon me I will explain more.

  Untrained dog

The dog is supposed to guard a farm. A stranger comes at night, enters in, the dog barks few time but not with strength, when the stranger calls and tries to make friends with the dog, the dog reacts friendly and approaches without any threat to the stranger, then when stranger acts like he is about to attack the dog, dog runs away.

Untrained dog

We are not talking about owner or handler/helper. I put a dog on chain and tie him, a stranger approaches him, he does not react neither positive nor negative, looks unsure, when stranger moves hands and body and shouts at dog, dog sits down and does not do anything, he looks as if praying to God, pls make this evil man go away from here and do not let him hurt me.

Same second dog challenges other dogs and shows willingness with intense to fight other dogs, but if a stranger human challenges him he cowards and does not fight.

The first thing you have to understand is a dog will not guard a person or property it is not bonded to. So, you cannot put a dog on a farm that is not its home and expect it to show guarding behaviour. If this WAS the dog's home, and it had lived there long enough to feel at home, well, I'd find myself another watchdog!

In the instance with the helper, the dog is obviously being pushed into defence, and shutting down. An experienced handler would never allow this to happen to a young dog, as it will affect future training. A young dog must first be worked in prey/play drive to build up its confidence. Doing this to a young dog is NOT a true test of its potential as a sport or guard dog. But people who don't understand training may think it is.

I remember a video someone once posted here of a man trying to get a young half-grown pit bull to bite. It was tied up, and he kept agitating it with - I think - a rag. When the dog did not respond (he was frightening it) he called it a POS and walked away.

First of all, a dog that is tied up feels helpless. It cannot run away, so it will either just shut down, or attack (fight for its life). This is how schutzhund training was done in the past. Dogs were worked only in defence, and it was easy to destroy a dog's confidence by pushing it too hard too soon. Today, we work dogs in prey/play drive, and it's all a game for them, so they work with their tails wagging, and are less likely to go off on some unsuspecting stranger because they've been taught to be afraid or suspicious.

In the instance of the dog attacking another dog, but not a human, that dog has serious issued. The attacks may come from insecurity (as they do with my rescue dog, Gracie.)  They do NOT mean a dog will make a good protection dog. Dogs do not usually establish pack rank by fighting with each other. It is done in more subtle ways, such as using body posture, eye contact, etc. to communicate dominance or submission. There are exceptions, but most dogs are able to establish who is the alpha without getting into a dangerous bloody battle with the other dog.

Re. attacking a human,. as I said in my above post, you cannot expect an untrained dog to attack a person. That is not the sort of nature domestic dogs are supposed to have! Anyone who would expect that really does not understand dogs.

Thanks hired dog and Sunsilver.


Isn't a 2 year old male GSD a grown up? not a young? other dogs at same age and same situation did not shut down, they were alert, watching the stranger as he approached and when provoked stood up and tried to bite as they perceived they were being attacked.

First dog was in his own farm where he was raised since he was 2.5 months old.

Ibrahim, I did some editing on my post. Please re-read. And if that dog being agitated by the helper was 2 years old, I agree with Hired Dog. Find another dog for doing protection! This one does not have what it takes!

Sunsilver, if dogs wont guard a property is not bonded to, please tell me, how do guard dogs that get dropped off at a client site in the evening and get picked up in the morning work?
I could drop my Fila off at your house tonight and I promise you, no one would get in, end of.
Your last paragraph is exactly whats wrong with sport trained dogs that never get any defense training and become either little prey monkeys or think that all bite work is play and the helper is their buddy. ALL dogs that are trained in bite work, especially those who must function in the real world MUST receive defense training to add intensity and power to the dog. Dogs do not become serious when biting in prey, they need to be pushed, intelligently, in defense to understand that the helper WILL hurt you if you dont get serious and fight instead of just looking for your toy.
This is the short version of a long explanation of course!
 

I understand all you're saying except this part


I want to make sure you understand me and I do the same

Attacking

I am not saying I want the dog to attack people, that is wrong for a dog to do such a thing, bad temperament. I am talking about fight drive, which people here all the time describe a strong well bred GSD to have.

Example, my dog Orwell z Noveho draka, untrained, guards my farm, I tested him several times with various strangers coming from outside and entering or pretending to enter the farm, he wouldn't stop barking, body and expression showing determination to attack if stranger puts his feet on ground, no hesitation at all. This Orwell is the nicest with children, puppies, sheep, family, visitors, even other adult dogs. He would never ATTACK a human out of aggression, but guards the farm seriously.

The other dog at my friend's farm does the opposite, few barks from 50 feet away, if provoked he runs away !!!


Ibrahim