Puppy factory? - Page 1

It is mentioned in this book, on page 73:

Haak, R., & Gerritsen, R. (2007). K9 Working Breeds, Characteristics and Capbilities. Detselig.

that over a 4 year period Walter Martin producing 363 litters
and his brother 206. ( Note, this is litters, not puppies.)

Does this seem to be reasonable?




 

No

nope. his calculations seem pretty close: http://gsd-legends.eu/Varia/SV-Zuechter-Top-100-Umsatzberechnungsmodell.pdf

Very interesting.

So while he was SV President , and selecting the sieger,  Hermin Martin
cashed in to the tune of almost 4 and a half million Euros in puppy sales,
plus the big bucks for sale of older dogs to China etc., more millions?
 

We must consider that heavy culling may have occurred, but still that's a lot of puppies.

Before blaming anybody, you should do your homework.

Mr Martin bred a lot of dogs during his life as did others. The Top 100 calculation is well known and informative, but in Mr Martin´s case not true,
He died in 1996, his kennelname was used by his family after his death ( 2000 the new name "Arminius 2000" ),
several of the "famous dogs sold elsewhere" listed were born and/or sold after his death.

I don´t like the "big players" too much, but the truth should stay the truth.

 

SitasMom : " We must consider that heavy culling may have occurred  ( ????? ), but still that's a lot of puppies. "

766 puppies in 24 years, that´s little less than 32 pups / year.
With only 5 pups in a litter that´s less than 6,5 litters / year.
A lot of people breed more, you don´t need more than 4 bitches.
Take a look at the websites of the well known kennels, you don´t even need to take a look over the pond, and you don´t even need to take a look at show lines ...

the OP question was whether 363 and 206 litters, respectively, are plausible over a four year period for the two kennels. the reference to jantie's documentation supports the claim that the litter counts postulated by haak et al. are erroneous with a very high likelihood.  haak et al. reference martin wahl as the source of these numbers, which is quite likely the result of a translation error.  i'm pretty sure martin wahl was referring to deckakte counts when he originally postulated these numbers in an article regarding the driving forces behind hochzucht and its adoption and promotion within the SV. alas, realgsd.net is no more to verify my possibly mistaken recollection.

ًWhether he produced 1 or 1000 puppies, what is the purpose of this post? 
Post title puppy factory? is an insult, in my opinion, to the memory of a very important pillar in the GSD history. No matter you agree or disagree with his impact on the GSD, he was one of the most successful and brilliant breeders in GSD history. Let's show some respect to this man, no matter how correct or wrong he was.
God bless Gustav and Preston, search their posts to learn that continuing of line breeding on Quanto and Canto and doubling on them is why we are in a bottle neck, what was excellent at one point is not necessarily excellent till end of life. Leave Walter Martin alone, focus on what present breeders are doing right now.

Ibrahim

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=703656-walter-martin-talks&pagen=4

Silbersee: (Quote)

Make no mistake! Not every Wienerau dog carrying his kennel name actually was one. Many other people bred under his kennel name back then there was no limit on how many litters or leasings a breeder can have. I talked to  a few years ago and the deal was that he would sign the necessary papework when the litter was ready to leave and he had first choice, but if he did decide to keep a puppy he would actually pay for it.