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by dwilliams on 27 November 2013 - 00:11
Miami-Dade K-9 Services
Sold My Family A Puppy With
Puppy Mange
I posted on this forum after buying my pup Jolie from Miami-Dade K-9 Services. Little did I know that the American Kennel Club puppy that I purchased was born to a Dam who, as per the veterinarian, harbors Puppy Mange which is subsequently passed on to her litters. When Mike, of Miami-Dade K-9 Services, was notified that he sold my family a diseased puppy, which already has skin lesions and risks further hair loss, immune system problems and even genetic disorders his bottom line was you can get a second, third or even a fourth medical opinion but ALL SALES ARE FINAL ! How can a reputable breeder register dogs with the American Kennel Club knowing that they come from a diseased lineage? Why couldn't Miami-Dade K-9 Services just have been honest concerning my puppy's medical background and let me decide if I wanted to purchase her or not? At any rate, I now understand why there have been so many online complaints and bad reviews about Miami-Dade K-9 Services and it's not for the reason that Mike claims - he states constantly that he has bad reviews because of jealous breeding competitors. My family and I are in for a long and expensive haul to care for our puppy. If Miami-Dade K-9 Services were indeed a reputable company they Never would have withheld the pertinent medical history of my pup and further they would now take financial responsibility for the medical treatments that my pup Must receive. I'll be contacting the American Kennel Club and Miami-Dade Animal County Services. As my story with Miami-Dade K-9 Services began on this site when I saw a picture of my pup I felt it only appropriate to give this update - I sincerely hope that this post will spare another future puppy owner from what my family and I are now going through because of Miami-Dade K-9 Services.
by Khaleesi23 on 27 November 2013 - 01:11
They post so many dogs and puppies for sale I knew it was bound to happen that someone bought one from them and something was wrong with it. I hate to hear that about your pup. AKC doesn't care about demodex or whatever else. They don't require your dog have health testing to breed. One of the big downfalls with AKC to me. I think they should require things like hips and elbows and have a ZW system like SV. But I hate that about your pup. Did you sign a contract of any sort?
by dwilliams on 27 November 2013 - 02:11
Thank you for your post !
Actually, it wasn't my idea to report Miami-Dade K-9 Services to the American Kennel Club. I've been informed, by a professional in the industry, that the AKC does not take kindly to breeders who knowingly are dishonest regarding the lineage of their animals. At any rate, regardless of what actions are ultimately taken, as a result of my making it known just what kind of backyard breeders Mike & Helen Paula are, the most important thing is that the word gets out so that hopefully this does not happen to anyone else.
My children are so hurt and worried because they were with me today when the vet explained that the "dip" bath which is normally used for puppy mange can cause liver damage, etc... It is absolutely despicable what some people are willingly to do for money ! Sorry for ranting. Again, thank you for your comments.
Actually, it wasn't my idea to report Miami-Dade K-9 Services to the American Kennel Club. I've been informed, by a professional in the industry, that the AKC does not take kindly to breeders who knowingly are dishonest regarding the lineage of their animals. At any rate, regardless of what actions are ultimately taken, as a result of my making it known just what kind of backyard breeders Mike & Helen Paula are, the most important thing is that the word gets out so that hopefully this does not happen to anyone else.
My children are so hurt and worried because they were with me today when the vet explained that the "dip" bath which is normally used for puppy mange can cause liver damage, etc... It is absolutely despicable what some people are willingly to do for money ! Sorry for ranting. Again, thank you for your comments.
by hexe on 27 November 2013 - 02:11
Oooo-kaaay now. Far be it for me to defend a mass-marketer of dogs and puppies, BUT--
You really need to do some reading on the subject of puppy demodex before you get yourself too wound up over this. Is getting a pup that breaks with puppy demodex a good thing? Well, of course not--but it is not as uncommon as you seem to think it is, and it's not something that is automatically going to be a long and drawn-out problem, either. It is not unusual for a puppy to have a breakthrough episode of demodectic mange in response to stress, such as occurs when the pup goes to a new home, especially if the pup had to be shipped out to the buyer; this stress can suppress the pup's immune system's defenses, and the normally harmless demodex mites [which are found in the skin of virtually all dogs] can cause skin irritation and localized hair loss. This can usually be treated rather easily, and generally once the pup has settled in to it's new home, the condition readily responds to the treatment and the pup is rarely troubled with the issue ever again.
In some instances, however, it is true that a pup can have a congenitally flawed or weak immune system, and those dogs will have periodic bouts with demodectic mange throughout their lives, again typically occurring when the dog is subjected to stressful circumstances, such as having to stay in a boarding kennel, or when the dog's body itself has been stressed by things such as general anesthesia, surgery, or illness. It would appear that it's too soon to tell if this pup of yours will be in that category, however--generally, puppy demodex can occur off and on throughout the pup's first 12 months of life, and the condition is only considered to be evidence of a weak or flawed immune system if it persists into adulthood.
Assuming that the photo you posted above is recent, I'm guessing that Jolie is around 9 months old now, so I have to wonder if the lesion pictured appeared shortly before, during or immediately after her first heat cycle. The hormonal changes can in fact trigger a puppy demodex episode, and it would not be unusual for her to never have another break of it from this point forward. As I said in the beginning of this post, I'm generally not the first one to jump in and defend a commercial operation such as Miami-Dade K9, but to let your misconceptions regarding puppy demodex go unchallenged would do a disservice to dog breeders of all stripes, because there are distinct limitations to what a breeder can do to prevent a pup they've sold from experiencing a break from this particular skin condition.
Edited to add: Having seen the photos and videos of your girl, she is a beautiful puppy, and you & your family are clearly crazy about her--nothing's going to change about that.
You really need to do some reading on the subject of puppy demodex before you get yourself too wound up over this. Is getting a pup that breaks with puppy demodex a good thing? Well, of course not--but it is not as uncommon as you seem to think it is, and it's not something that is automatically going to be a long and drawn-out problem, either. It is not unusual for a puppy to have a breakthrough episode of demodectic mange in response to stress, such as occurs when the pup goes to a new home, especially if the pup had to be shipped out to the buyer; this stress can suppress the pup's immune system's defenses, and the normally harmless demodex mites [which are found in the skin of virtually all dogs] can cause skin irritation and localized hair loss. This can usually be treated rather easily, and generally once the pup has settled in to it's new home, the condition readily responds to the treatment and the pup is rarely troubled with the issue ever again.
In some instances, however, it is true that a pup can have a congenitally flawed or weak immune system, and those dogs will have periodic bouts with demodectic mange throughout their lives, again typically occurring when the dog is subjected to stressful circumstances, such as having to stay in a boarding kennel, or when the dog's body itself has been stressed by things such as general anesthesia, surgery, or illness. It would appear that it's too soon to tell if this pup of yours will be in that category, however--generally, puppy demodex can occur off and on throughout the pup's first 12 months of life, and the condition is only considered to be evidence of a weak or flawed immune system if it persists into adulthood.
Assuming that the photo you posted above is recent, I'm guessing that Jolie is around 9 months old now, so I have to wonder if the lesion pictured appeared shortly before, during or immediately after her first heat cycle. The hormonal changes can in fact trigger a puppy demodex episode, and it would not be unusual for her to never have another break of it from this point forward. As I said in the beginning of this post, I'm generally not the first one to jump in and defend a commercial operation such as Miami-Dade K9, but to let your misconceptions regarding puppy demodex go unchallenged would do a disservice to dog breeders of all stripes, because there are distinct limitations to what a breeder can do to prevent a pup they've sold from experiencing a break from this particular skin condition.
Edited to add: Having seen the photos and videos of your girl, she is a beautiful puppy, and you & your family are clearly crazy about her--nothing's going to change about that.
by dwilliams on 27 November 2013 - 03:11
To Hex - I appreciate your input.
The problem is that Miami-Dade K-9 Services should have been upfront and honest about the medical history of my pups Dam as dermodectic mange is not a disease that can be treated and then forever go away. This disease that my pup has will stay with her for the Rest Of Her Life as it is her Dam who infected her as well as the rest of her litter.
In regards to this unfortunate situation, I have no need to rely on information which I can find on google which may or may not contain current and correct information. The information which I have shared here comes from the years of experience that my pups veterinarian has had with these cases.
If one purchased a brand new car from a dealer only to find out later, when the vehicle had problems, that the dealer had in fact purposefully not disclosed the fact that the engine had been replaced then the dealer would be called out for exactly what he is ... A Despicable Liar Who Would Do Whatever It Took To Make A Buck !
The problem is that Miami-Dade K-9 Services should have been upfront and honest about the medical history of my pups Dam as dermodectic mange is not a disease that can be treated and then forever go away. This disease that my pup has will stay with her for the Rest Of Her Life as it is her Dam who infected her as well as the rest of her litter.
In regards to this unfortunate situation, I have no need to rely on information which I can find on google which may or may not contain current and correct information. The information which I have shared here comes from the years of experience that my pups veterinarian has had with these cases.
If one purchased a brand new car from a dealer only to find out later, when the vehicle had problems, that the dealer had in fact purposefully not disclosed the fact that the engine had been replaced then the dealer would be called out for exactly what he is ... A Despicable Liar Who Would Do Whatever It Took To Make A Buck !
by hexe on 27 November 2013 - 03:11
dwilliams, sorry, but you're wrong. It is ABSOLUTELY possible that your Jolie's demodectic mange will resolve and never return again. It is also ABSOLUTELY possible that Jolie's mother has NEVER had even a single episode of demodectic mange, even as a puppy--please click on the link I included in my previous post, and read the material carefully. The demodex mites inhabit the skin of most dogs, and most dogs never have any problems with that. Here's an article on the subject that's written for the average dog owner; again, you'll see that unless Jolie's mother has had a generalized case of demodectic mange there was no reason she shouldn't have been bred. Also keep in mind that if the Jolie's breeder got her mother as an adult, they would have no way of knowing that whether she'd ever experienced any localized demodectic mange. I can understand why you'd be upset, and if Jolie has a generalized case of demodectic mange that is a completely different circumstance--but if she has just that bare spot on the back side of her ear, that's localized, and that's not something to panic over. I urge you to read the information in the links I've provided so you have a clear understanding of the cause, effect, types and prognosis of this skin condition, and you don't worry yourself over something that really isn't all that serious.
Edited to add: Google-schmoogle, I'm not telling you this information based on anything I've had to web-search; I'm a veterinary technician with over 25 years in the field, and I actually KNOW what I'm talking about when I offer advice on situations such as this without having to 'Google' it--the links are provided for your convenience and edification, so you can confirm via other sources what I have explained in my posts. I suspect you either misunderstood what your vet said to you about the condition, or you read more into what you were told than there really was meant to be, because I am sure your vet never told you that Jolie's mother absolutely had demodectic mange and should not have been bred. Even if your vet is also the vet who cares for Miami-Dade's dogs and had first-hand knowledge that Jolie's mother had in fact been treated for a generalized case of this condition, they would not be permitted to discuss that with you without permission from Miami-Dade.
Have all the beef you want with the very breeder/seller you were singing the praises of just four months' earlier, but whether you like it or not, puppy demodex is not something to trash a breeder over. Localized puppy demodex happens, even with the most diligent and conscientious of breeders, and expecting the breeder to pay for treatment costs is as unreasonable as it would be to expect the breeder to pay the cost of treating a case of gastrointestinal upset.
Edited to add: Google-schmoogle, I'm not telling you this information based on anything I've had to web-search; I'm a veterinary technician with over 25 years in the field, and I actually KNOW what I'm talking about when I offer advice on situations such as this without having to 'Google' it--the links are provided for your convenience and edification, so you can confirm via other sources what I have explained in my posts. I suspect you either misunderstood what your vet said to you about the condition, or you read more into what you were told than there really was meant to be, because I am sure your vet never told you that Jolie's mother absolutely had demodectic mange and should not have been bred. Even if your vet is also the vet who cares for Miami-Dade's dogs and had first-hand knowledge that Jolie's mother had in fact been treated for a generalized case of this condition, they would not be permitted to discuss that with you without permission from Miami-Dade.
Have all the beef you want with the very breeder/seller you were singing the praises of just four months' earlier, but whether you like it or not, puppy demodex is not something to trash a breeder over. Localized puppy demodex happens, even with the most diligent and conscientious of breeders, and expecting the breeder to pay for treatment costs is as unreasonable as it would be to expect the breeder to pay the cost of treating a case of gastrointestinal upset.
by Hundmutter on 27 November 2013 - 03:11
Dwilliams, you seem to be missing the point: that virtually ALL
dogs carry Demodex in their skin, ALL the time. (I say 'virtually';
in fact I never actually heard of any dog clinically proven 'clear' of
these mites for its lifetime.)
Mostly they are just quietly there and do not cause any problems.
Except they can always break out under any of the circumstances Hexe
describes in her post.
To say that there is fault by the breeders for a bitch passing the mite to
her offspring is like saying there is fault in my mother for passing on her
brown eyes or her gut bacteria, to me.
IME vets will always sell you a problem, if they can sell you a cure.
dogs carry Demodex in their skin, ALL the time. (I say 'virtually';
in fact I never actually heard of any dog clinically proven 'clear' of
these mites for its lifetime.)
Mostly they are just quietly there and do not cause any problems.
Except they can always break out under any of the circumstances Hexe
describes in her post.
To say that there is fault by the breeders for a bitch passing the mite to
her offspring is like saying there is fault in my mother for passing on her
brown eyes or her gut bacteria, to me.
IME vets will always sell you a problem, if they can sell you a cure.
by hexe on 27 November 2013 - 04:11
And BTW, it's D-E-M-O-D-E-C-T-I-C, not D-E-R-M-O-D-E-C-T-I-C. There's no "R".
by dwilliams on 27 November 2013 - 04:11
To hexe and Hundmutter: I beg to differ with you unless of course either of you are licensed veterinarians who actually took my pups culture and once analyzed allowed me to compare the microscopic findings to a relevant medical text yesterday afternoon.
Are neither of you aware of the negative comments and complaints that Miami-Dade K-9 Services has received on this site as well as others ? In fact Hundmutter you left a thumbs down and a not so nice post in July 2013 in regards to a positive post left for Miami-Dade. As such, why the sudden change of heart all of a sudden concerning this breeder ? Unfortunately, the majority of the negative information against them here has vanished as they no longer advertise on this site.
I even have an e-mail from Mike complaining to me that after I made my initial post that pedigree.com suspended his "paid" account as it was pedigree.com belief that Mike was leaving most of the positive commentary regarding his breeding business himself. Do a little research of your own, why don't you, as to the integrity of this backyard breeder starting with http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Miami-Dade-K9-Services/internet/Miami-Dade-K9-Services-THIS-COMPANY-IS-A-SCAM-Internet-959857
Unfortunately, it seems as though the diagnosis received from my pups veterinarian has become a subject of debate. The facts are what the facts are, and I did not post to debate the issue. The purpose of my posting was to let others know just what type of breeders Mike & Helen really are so that they can make an informed decision if they are in the market for a pup. In hindsight, I now wish that I had taken all of the complaints and negative feedback, which was then on this site, to heart as opposed to allowing Mike to convince me that the before mentioned was just his jealous competitors telling falsehoods because they could not compare to him, professionally speaking.
To hexe: Thanks for the automatic spell check - I've had a miserable day. That being said, you still managed to understand my post despite the spelling error - Bravo ! 25 years as a tech, wow super impressive. I'll again use the analogy already posted which goes "If one purchased a brand new car from a dealer only to find out later, when the vehicle had problems, that the dealer had in fact purposefully not disclosed the fact that the engine had been replaced then the dealer would be called out for exactly what he is ... A Despicable Liar Who Would Do Whatever It Took To Make A Buck!" Lastly, changing my mind about the breeder who at the time I did not know was withholding pertinent medical info is a normal reaction in light of the recent developments.
Are neither of you aware of the negative comments and complaints that Miami-Dade K-9 Services has received on this site as well as others ? In fact Hundmutter you left a thumbs down and a not so nice post in July 2013 in regards to a positive post left for Miami-Dade. As such, why the sudden change of heart all of a sudden concerning this breeder ? Unfortunately, the majority of the negative information against them here has vanished as they no longer advertise on this site.
I even have an e-mail from Mike complaining to me that after I made my initial post that pedigree.com suspended his "paid" account as it was pedigree.com belief that Mike was leaving most of the positive commentary regarding his breeding business himself. Do a little research of your own, why don't you, as to the integrity of this backyard breeder starting with http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Miami-Dade-K9-Services/internet/Miami-Dade-K9-Services-THIS-COMPANY-IS-A-SCAM-Internet-959857
Unfortunately, it seems as though the diagnosis received from my pups veterinarian has become a subject of debate. The facts are what the facts are, and I did not post to debate the issue. The purpose of my posting was to let others know just what type of breeders Mike & Helen really are so that they can make an informed decision if they are in the market for a pup. In hindsight, I now wish that I had taken all of the complaints and negative feedback, which was then on this site, to heart as opposed to allowing Mike to convince me that the before mentioned was just his jealous competitors telling falsehoods because they could not compare to him, professionally speaking.
To hexe: Thanks for the automatic spell check - I've had a miserable day. That being said, you still managed to understand my post despite the spelling error - Bravo ! 25 years as a tech, wow super impressive. I'll again use the analogy already posted which goes "If one purchased a brand new car from a dealer only to find out later, when the vehicle had problems, that the dealer had in fact purposefully not disclosed the fact that the engine had been replaced then the dealer would be called out for exactly what he is ... A Despicable Liar Who Would Do Whatever It Took To Make A Buck!" Lastly, changing my mind about the breeder who at the time I did not know was withholding pertinent medical info is a normal reaction in light of the recent developments.
by 1GSD1 on 27 November 2013 - 08:11
Listen to the others!! If every breeder dumped a sire or dam of a litter that had a puppy or two with demodex, the gene pool would be so limited that worst things would creep up.
You could have bought that puppy from any breeder, any bloodline and have had the same thing. Although not desirable, it is NOT uncommon. This has nothing to do with how many dogs this place sells/breeds etc. Again it can happen with any pup from any breeder from any bloodline.
You could have bought that puppy from any breeder, any bloodline and have had the same thing. Although not desirable, it is NOT uncommon. This has nothing to do with how many dogs this place sells/breeds etc. Again it can happen with any pup from any breeder from any bloodline.
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