What happens when ..... - Page 1

What happens when Alpha dog passes on and you have dogs that are naturally should not and most likely will not be leaders left behind...do you get a puppy that shows promise of being an Alpha dog before 1st Alpha passes on, or do you let one assume leadership position after the loss of the leader?

P.S. I get that human is the leader and i agree but within a group among dogs there is always one who is over the group, especially when people are not present...

I tend to allow my current dog to help me raise the next generation.
When i got Payne I had just lost my Beta female (Ivy), still had the very elderly Alpha female (Maggie) and Gama male (Luther) (Always low man on the totem pole even though he was twice as big as the rest. ) And i had a female who's status i was never quite sure of. (Gladys)   She was not trouble but didn't take any crap either. But slightly above her brother. Beta Ivy was mother to Luther and Gladys. None of them were related to Maggie or Payne. I lost Luther two weeks after i got Payne to an impaction. Maggie hated puppies so i made sure that the new 9 week out puppy did not bother the old bitch. That left Gladys to raise my new pup. Show her the ropes and teach her some dog manners.
So Gladys got to play Auntie and help train Payne who is not an Alpha for sure. And Payne will be put to work training the male i get next year. Regardless of his status in the pecking order.
I don't know if this helps or not, but i'm currently down to 1 dog as all the older dogs have passed away since i got Payne.
I'm curious to see what others say.
Fry.

My mentor's Showdogs were kennelled individually or in pairs,  so there was not a
lot of 'pack structure' to observe with those.  I have only had one house-dog at a time,
and I'm not sure that their behaviour in re groups of dogs they met while out on walks
etc tells us much in this context.

My one long-term experience with running a 'pack' is as follows: 
When I started working for my old employer, back in '99,  we did not let the dogs (all
GSDs btw) run as one pack, those we knew got along okay were walked together in
smaller numbers, and paired up for guard work.  Some were more DA than others,  but
with those we could take out together, there was still a definite 'pecking order' and there
was one older male who was a true Alpha dog, that all the others behaved well around and
did not challenge.  After a few years he died, creating a 'vacancy', and it was interesting
to watch as the more we managed to reconcile anti-social behaviour and get more of them
safe to be taken out into the fields together, gradually a new Alpha emerged.

Surprisingly perhaps, he was, although physically mature, one of the youngest dogs there at
the time, being one of four kept on from the latest litter.  Two more litters were subsequently
born, but if memory serves me correctly this dog had started to emerge as the stronger character
and the others had all started looking to him for a guide / watching what he was doing and where
he went, by the time the first of those two litters had just whelped.  This level of respect was perhaps
more noticeable than the previous alpha dog had commanded, but that could just as easily be
about changes in the numbers of dogs in more contact with each other, under a changed
regime.  But the other thing that happened was that a distinct Beta dog appeared;  he'd
always been there, was an uncle to the 'top dog' but began to show a clear "2nd in command /
group peacemaker" role.  Eventually, also,  we got a definite 'gamma' (or as I used to put it,
Omega dog)  in a male from the final litter born.  Unlike 'Fry's gamma dog he was not imposing
in size,  but he was very bright and crafty, so although he was always being picked on as the
bottom of the heap, he had his own way of getting most of what he wanted eventually.

Note these were all (neutered) males;  females in the group rarely consistently showed particular rank,
 and it was complicated by them often being the DA individuals so they tended not to be part
of the larger pack, as they got on fine with most dogs but not each other so much !  They were a mix
of entire and neutered bitches.

In latter years (up to 2010/11)  the older, related, dogs died off and we brought in a number of unrelated
rescues.  The same thing applied with most of the boys continuing to get along,  but girls not so much.
But when I left, there was "no clear leader" in the ranking ...   Dunno if this helps at all, LF ?

In the pack another alpha will emerge, either from within or sometimes from outside the pack, a new pup will not become an alpha in this same pack.
Perhaps one will leave the pack and mate becoming the alpha of a new pack.
In dogs the rules are blurred somewhat, so anything is possible, this is not a natural pack to begin with usually, too much human intervention.

hmm...so sounds like it really wont matter what i would do, natural selection in my controlled group will happen on its own....i just cant even imagine...at this point cat has better chances than other 3....LOL...

Why do you need an alpha dog? Are there elk which need hunting?

i dont know...we always had one....

Your dogs will sort it out themselves. Nothing for you to deal with.

My very dominate alpha bitch is growing old and my younger bitch will surely take her place one day, I've watched for the challenge but the relationship between them would probably not allow it.
Only after she passes will the younger step in.
The male, well he doesn't care one way or the other, his throne is never at risk.....
If I brought in another mature bitch there would be a challenge but that will never happen here.


There is always something to deal with greyhoundgirl..

well, thats kind of what i have...my males don't bother with each other or girls, both will give up whatever they have to girls....alpha (misty ) is getting older ( 12 going on 13) and slowing down, Bailey (the one w/o hip) has always had people issues, doesn't trust them and if i raise my voice she bolts, she is insecure and is in no shape or form should be alpha but i doubt boys will even think twice to challenge her for the possition....i had high hopes for Tank (the youngest male in the group) he is secure, assured, balanced, little too excitable  but he worships the ground Bailey walks on....we temporarily had a female dog here for 1 week of training, young 9 month old naturally born leader, she was great, everyone except alpha submitted to her w/o a fight, she did challenged alpha but ended up submitted on the ground with 2 punctures...she would have been perfect post death of my dog, but she doesn't belong to us unfortunatley....after she went home, it made me think of what would happen after my alpha is gone....