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by Carlin on 12 November 2013 - 10:11
...the lunacy of ruining one holiday in the pursuit of commercializing another. The retailers claim they are doing what they feel their customers want, while the experts say it is the corporations who are driving the trend. Either way, it wouldn't be possible unless it was supported by Americans' wallets. I suppose we won't be satisfied until we are able to declare "Black Thursday", essentially eliminating Thanksgiving altogether. Think that's somewhat hyperbolic? Think a little harder. We are already rushing through the day to "get done" with the festivities in order to leave our homes and our families in order to participate in the real "feeding". What does that say about what we value? This is a very good article, IMO.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-11-10/business/ct-biz-1110-black-thursday--20131110_1_thanksgiving-hours-thanksgiving-day-retailers
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-11-10/business/ct-biz-1110-black-thursday--20131110_1_thanksgiving-hours-thanksgiving-day-retailers

by vonissk on 12 November 2013 - 12:11
That was a very good article and thanks for sharing it. Myself I think it is more and more of the breakdown of the family. I also think it is the corporations that are pushing for more and more rather than the consumer. IMO also it leads people to buy--on credit--things they may not need and /or afford............Why? Because it's Black Friday and it's a "tradition".
Do you personally get out on shop on that day Carlin? I do not--people turn into I don't know what--rude and pushy and I just choose not to deal with all that. And opening directly on the holiday is just BS, JMO.
Do you personally get out on shop on that day Carlin? I do not--people turn into I don't know what--rude and pushy and I just choose not to deal with all that. And opening directly on the holiday is just BS, JMO.

by Carlin on 12 November 2013 - 12:11
No; I refuse to support the trend, and spend the entire day and evening with family. My wife also doesn't want any part of the shopping on the day after, Friday, for the simple reason that watching people literally flock to feed is so similar being amongst a bunch of animals, or beasts. Every year, there are a number of stories regarding violence at the retailers, not to mention the lesser instances of poor behavior which go unreported. No thanks. Also if you pay close enough attention to many of the items marketed, they are not necessarily in the realm of the "gift", indicating perhaps the extent to which much of this purchasing has do with the gift-giving (or not) associated with the season. I think we all have quite enough crap cluttering up our houses, amidst a decided lack of virtue. I can remember what Thanksgiving looked like to me growing up. It was a day on which absolutely nothing moved; nothing open. (To some extent, perhaps to a lesser degree, this was also the case on Sundays due to the blue laws) I realize some of employees of these establishments work on a volunteer basis for Thanksgiving, but I am not naive enough to belief there are never repercussions for not being a "good soldier", not to mention the fact that I'm sure management is expected to be present regardless. I think aside form the commercialization itself, one positive may be the fact that many retailers offer deals online, so that some of the "bounty" may be had without encouraging this trend in the brick-and-mortar realm.

by LadyFrost on 12 November 2013 - 12:11
I rather spend $20.00 extra than being part of a large crowd of stupidity....


by beetree on 12 November 2013 - 14:11
It is too bad our traditions are being trivialized for a meaningless profit. I don't think it is necessary. What little money squeezed out early from the holiday buying, suddenly won't matter when it is found to still not be enough. I do know of people who do make the next day shopping part of their Thanksgiving tradition. Kind of a reward for all the "womenfolk" who did all the kitchen work from the day before. It was never on my agenda. And now, I just can't stand crowds while shopping any more, so I wait for internet Monday. Too much choice gets to me too, sometimes. Don't remind me about the crap cluttering things up! Too true. What comes in has to be really worthy these days. And to justify this Thanksgiving dinner ambush, the companies say they are doing it because it is filling a need? They want to capture the thrill seeking bargain hunters dollars? Who cares?
Besides, there is too much champagne flowing at Thanksgiving dinner at my sister's house with our regular group; it is more like a party culminating with the ultimate pie contest winner award, between myself and my sisters' sister-in-law. I would not be good for shopping on the same day. I do not drive the 1 1/4 hrs it takes to get home, either.
Besides, there is too much champagne flowing at Thanksgiving dinner at my sister's house with our regular group; it is more like a party culminating with the ultimate pie contest winner award, between myself and my sisters' sister-in-law. I would not be good for shopping on the same day. I do not drive the 1 1/4 hrs it takes to get home, either.

by Ruger1 on 12 November 2013 - 17:11
I hate waiting in lines!!,,I don't do crowds or all the commotion ,,Not that desperate to save a a few dollars either,,I do find it sad that our traditions are changing...:( I hate change...but I suppose it's inevitable///....

by vonissk on 12 November 2013 - 18:11
Here the people are so greedy that the Wed. before turkey day people are out in flocks checking out the products that are going to be on sale on Black Friday--Made the mistake of going to WalMart on the Wed before and saw all that and I got the heck out of Dodge.
Like you Carlin, I remember that day as everything being shut down except for the convenience stores--and even those generally closed at an early hour--and it was peaceful--really a time for family and friends, checking on the elderly etc............in our house we went through the before dinner routine as to what we were thankful for and a real prayer--as opposed to a "canned" one--and it was REAL family time, not run in and out here and there. Ruger I definately hate change and I miss those times. (and Mama's dressing cause noone could cook like her)
Carlin I really like what you said about people turning into animals--good description..........my dogs are more well mannered waiting for their leg quarters than any of the people I have seen lately.
A couple of weeks ago our local grocery store had a big sale from 3-8 pm. As you know I live in a fairly small podunk town--I bet there were 300 people in the store when I got there, no baskets, and on and on. Animals is what they were. I will never do that again. Most everyone knows everyone here or at least some of their gossip and I saw a side to them I'd never seen before. To tie into LF's post and spending a little extra to avoid all this--they had these cake mixes, buy one get one free--these people were loaded up and fussing over the mixes. I went to the store Sunday to grab a loaf of bread and right in front are these same cake mixes for 69 cents. I know the regular price isn't much over a dollar. So tell me Sulphur was it all worth it? Nope I just stay away and watch the real traditions falling apart................
Like you Carlin, I remember that day as everything being shut down except for the convenience stores--and even those generally closed at an early hour--and it was peaceful--really a time for family and friends, checking on the elderly etc............in our house we went through the before dinner routine as to what we were thankful for and a real prayer--as opposed to a "canned" one--and it was REAL family time, not run in and out here and there. Ruger I definately hate change and I miss those times. (and Mama's dressing cause noone could cook like her)
Carlin I really like what you said about people turning into animals--good description..........my dogs are more well mannered waiting for their leg quarters than any of the people I have seen lately.
A couple of weeks ago our local grocery store had a big sale from 3-8 pm. As you know I live in a fairly small podunk town--I bet there were 300 people in the store when I got there, no baskets, and on and on. Animals is what they were. I will never do that again. Most everyone knows everyone here or at least some of their gossip and I saw a side to them I'd never seen before. To tie into LF's post and spending a little extra to avoid all this--they had these cake mixes, buy one get one free--these people were loaded up and fussing over the mixes. I went to the store Sunday to grab a loaf of bread and right in front are these same cake mixes for 69 cents. I know the regular price isn't much over a dollar. So tell me Sulphur was it all worth it? Nope I just stay away and watch the real traditions falling apart................

by Carlin on 12 November 2013 - 18:11
^^ - amazing that we so quickly forget our heritage. That we cannot even take one day to just STOP, and reflect, and be thankful, I think says so very much about what we have become. I realize that not everyone has my old-school New England, Italian-Catholic, conservative background, but I think anyone should be able to understand that there must have been a good reason why at one time this entire nation came to a screeching halt on the last Thursday of every November, decade upon decade.

by ggturner on 12 November 2013 - 22:11
We never shop on Black Friday. Sadly this year my son who is a software engineer in Atlanta flies to Dallas on Black Friday to help a large retail client with their new software so they can track sales. We have to cut our holiday with him short because of it.

by Hundmutter on 13 November 2013 - 03:11
There is a similar scenario over here in the UK, although we do not,
of course, celebrate Thanksgiving. I too can remember when all
the shops were closed and nothing moved, on Bank Holidays and key
days surrounding holidays like Easter and Christmas. [ Although one
should take into account that this was a relatively recent phenomenon,
previous ages had trading taking place more or less without cease in the
days when the holidays themselves were less prominent, more religion-
centred. But those days, everything was on a smaller, less commercial
-ized scale.]
Too bad if you needed to travel somewhere or buy that one loaf of bread.
So the 'opening up' of shopping and society has certainly had SOME
value, especially for those who have jobs which mean they cannot get
away from serving others EXCEPT when all the facilities shut for the
holidays ! However, the concentration on Sales etc nowadays attached
to those events is a royal PITA.
Personally I refuse to join pavement queues to wait for sales to open, or go
shopping on the busiest days, like the rest of you. Life is too short to pander
to the great god Profit.
of course, celebrate Thanksgiving. I too can remember when all
the shops were closed and nothing moved, on Bank Holidays and key
days surrounding holidays like Easter and Christmas. [ Although one
should take into account that this was a relatively recent phenomenon,
previous ages had trading taking place more or less without cease in the
days when the holidays themselves were less prominent, more religion-
centred. But those days, everything was on a smaller, less commercial
-ized scale.]
Too bad if you needed to travel somewhere or buy that one loaf of bread.
So the 'opening up' of shopping and society has certainly had SOME
value, especially for those who have jobs which mean they cannot get
away from serving others EXCEPT when all the facilities shut for the
holidays ! However, the concentration on Sales etc nowadays attached
to those events is a royal PITA.
Personally I refuse to join pavement queues to wait for sales to open, or go
shopping on the busiest days, like the rest of you. Life is too short to pander
to the great god Profit.
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