Perhaps the most important cartoon you'll ever watch... - Page 1

I guess when dealing with the Nine the cartoon format makes more sense than something a bit more intellectual.

But the real problem that wasn't addressed is how do you beat the bankers today, short of a fire?

Any suggestions?

"Without guidance from a transcendental source, reason is powerless to control irrational drives, which threaten to degrade human existence."  -Marvin Perry

Many don't subscribe to the idea of a "transcendental" source.  Though I subscribe, what I understand doesn't lead me to believe a wholesale change in societal values will come through its institutions.  Time and time again, I have witnessed a reality (at both the macro and micro levels), wherein man seems to require some outside force working upon him in order for major changes to take hold. 

Adam Smith, author of the "Wealth of Nations" (a sort of economist's bible in a way), offered that all wealth is created by labor.  Whose labor?  Throughout industrial history, someone is always disadvantaged to one extent or another.  Here in the US, our seemingly insatiable appetites for excessive goods and services fuels the cycle, a cycle which sees damage done at all levels save for a select few (whose fates some believe will come later). Some succeed to greater or lesser degrees in exercising restraint, temperance, balance, self-control, moderation, discipline, and responsibility.  In order to break the hold, all of these must be worth more than the pleasure and comfort which ransom them.  From what I see and have seen, most are content to leave a legacy of destruction and waste in the wake of their material orgies (an art brought to new heights by the baby-boomer generation).  By the time a generation rolls around when things are desperate enough to recognize the extent of problems, apathy has set in. 

I guess, no matter what you believe about the outside force (natural or supernatural), its onset may be what is necessary for real and lasting change.

So...your suggestion is the supernatural?

I higher source?

That's a lot to say Carlin, without saying much of anything.

 

I thought someone might actually have a few good suggestions.

​"...man seems to require some outside force working upon him in order for major changes to take hold..."

carlin if i get what yr saying i think i agree somewhat but prolly for different reasons (other than  the sexist connotation of "man" ). i have seen mothers tell children that is they misbehave the easter bunny/santa/god is always watching and "he" will not bring you an easter egg/christmas present/eternal life, these mythical figures are instilled in children as a free baby-sitting service and actually DO/CAN change a child's behavior with the promise/threat of reward/punishment.

sounds too simple but i dispute it is.

who has the most to gain by religion? forget the individual that believes they have a shot at heaven or whatever, it is the powerful that can use the concept like the mother uses the easter bunny except the powerful can subdue and control entire populations with essentially the same threat as the mother to the child. to gain this much control/enslavement using force would be too expensive, open to breaches and less effective. 

if i did not have the military strength to control a population i would be doing my darn best to convince them of a supernatural power that will smite them for acting in a way that ultimately did not serve my interests or conversely reward them with heaven eventually when they did. 

it is the perfect con.

 

How did you turn money into a god discussion?
Unbelievable.
 

Thomas Jefferson said it best and knew the answer to the riddle.

moons, the point isn't to forward a particular ideology here. Just to say that I believe, and history would seem to indicate, that even when we recognize we our self destructive behaviors (individually and collectively), it is often not until we are "forced" by some rather dynamic consequence, or set of consequences, do we make significant changes.

VK - sure, I agree. But I'm not talking about or suggesting religion as the answer. We are (at least in the US) addicted to the democratization of goods and services as a result of industrialization. We feel entitled to a certain way of life, and to some extent, the suggestion of anything "less" takes on a negative connotation. The beast feeds us, and as long as we are consuming, we remain satiated and largely ignorant of anything beyond our immediate "10 acres", the picture of caged rats I suppose.
At this point, if you even suggest to many Americans (and I have), that we should stop abusing or freedom, and instead use it to make better choices in regard to consumption, for instance, you will be met with some less than stellar responses. The "American way", has become one of living beyond your means (by and large), all the while absolutely embracing our unsustainable cycle of consumerism. This unprecedented level of consumption beyond the means is financed. The question is, who and how many are going to throttle this conditioned behavior and to what extent? moon's fire sees conditions thrust upon the population. In a way, change is forced. My supernatural force (which could easily be reckoned with moon's fire, or any number of other natural, social, or celestial things) has a similar effect. In either case, the change in behavior isn't self-induced, based on a reasonable assessment and response.