Market over-saturated? - Page 1

Was browsing around looking at website noticed that Fleisherhelm has lots of pups for sale, many of them getting older. He seems to have alot of nice dogs but I was wondering why they seem to be not selling very fast as they are VA lines and look very nice. Maybe price is too high as some go for up to $5000.00? I know when I get ready to get another one no way I would pay that much, but that's just me, some people must have more monies to spend than I do...lol Anyone else seeing market getting oversaturated?

My oldest female's mom is out of that kennel. Her GrandFather was Vimo Vom Fiemereck. I went on his site and I do think his prices are to high. That is probably why the are not selling, and I don't think he negotiates with his prices either. To bad because he does have some nice one's there.

I no some breeders in Michigan and Indiana that have sold nice pups in the 2500.00 range for years and their sales have slowed due to the economy.According to them a lot of people that use to make 25.00 per hour are losing there jobs due to steel factories and such closing and are now working for 10.00 per hour and just can't afford to spend that kind of money. That's what I think is happening in the Northeast part of the country, I don't no about anywhere else........ Dave

Some breeders may feel it's a better marketing strategy to not update their "for sale" web pages. There's always the chance that a prospective buyer will purchase another dog in lieu of the one they are interested in initially. If that dog is no longer on the for sale page, then that buyer might move on to another breeder. The more offered for sale, the more interest will be generated. I also agree that the state of the economy is a factor in the way people spent money today. The upside could be that if prices for GSD's drop then some in it only for the money will move on.

You would also have to assume the internet has given people the option of finding pups closer to there home and probably cheaper in price. I would guess this might slow sales for the big boys.People use to go to Dog World or other magazines like that and would choose the biggest ad and go buy from them, now they have a lot more to look at......Just my opinion.

Where there used to be 1 breeder selling 7 pups, there are now 7 breeders selling 1 pup, and many people have pups left for longer periods of time. It's a "dog eat dog" world out there, and you see SO MANY people saying negative things about other breeders, just to try to get a sale, or at the very least, make it to where that other breeder doesn't. I personally do not care WHO people buy their pup/dog from, I am always happy to answer any questions. Breeders should be happy to answer people's questions! Answering their questions only gives them a better knowledge base from which to make an informed decision. Informed people typically make better decisions. Those better decisions, in turn, help to better the breed as a whole, and that is the WHOLE POINT of breeding in the first place, que non? ("isn't it?") Just my personal opinion....

I believe several dynamics are at play. As Blitzen said, some do not remove those that have sold since they might bring in more buyers. In our market it makes no sense to price correctly and then lose money when a percentage come back with HD, cryptochidism, etc. so I believe that some are taking the approach of selling fewer dogs at higher prices thereby increasing profit while reducing exposure. Another factor is that many buyers have discovered how easy it is to buy from Germany at half the price. Best Wishes, Jonah

Good points, Jonah and Blitzen. Although this is a dated statement, the availabiliy of the internet has no doubt allowed many to see much of what is out there. Some of the old-time larger kennels in Europe were very slow to adapt to the modern world and present themselves on the worldwide web, so for some time North American breeders had a distinct advantage over their European counterparts, and have been able to charge very high (in my opinion) prices for unproven puppies. I think that we will continue to see this trend as time goes by, and it could be true that a saturation point is upon us, or very near us. That, coupled with the less-than-ideal economic conditions and the conflict overseas no doubt have suppressed consumer confidence for the purchase of many "big ticket" items. Bob-O Bob-O

IMO, nothing has changed. Sure, there are people who do not have as much money now as they did last year or ten years ago, but then are are lots of people who have more money now than previously. With the internet, it is so much easier to reach a bigger audience, that we just see more easily what is "out there". Of course there are more breeders now, because there are more people in general. But that cuts both ways. More people, more breeders, more buyers. Not much has changed. Just easier to "find" what's available. Look in old dog magazines (or in Stephanitz' book) and you will see the same amount of ads from all over the place. Nothing has changed. IF it has changed it is more in line with close to what VomFelsenHof said above, "Where there used to be 1 breeder selling 7 pups, there are now 7 breeders selling 1 pup", except, IMO there may now be 7 breeders selling 3 pups, but I don't really think anything has changed much.

To many people get into breeding for the money and have no clue to the hardships/way of life/or the costs. I have many breeder friends, they are out in the rain/slipping in the mud (the dogs have to eat). As said in previous posts, they have been bitten in dog fights or one of the show girls now missing 1/2 an ear, because of a mistake made by kennel help. The costs to train, show, breed, feed, health care, lack of sleep when expecting mother is delivering or sick dogs. Then the one I like best, dealing with the public. I have spent enough time helping out to find the public hesterically funny. Had I spent years, I am sure I would no longer find them funny.