Is it Degenerative Myelopathy? Need more advise. - Page 1

Hi. I have a question. Hoping to get answers. (Please excuse the following essay that i just wrote. I just thought it would be good if you got as much info as possible, in order to give me an answer)

My dog, Luka, just turned 11. He is an Alaskan Husky and is extremely healthy. Since winter started, he started standing up slowly. I left it and though the cold weather is affecting his hind legs. About a month ago, his hind legs became slightly weak and there is a slight delay in his hind legs. Other than that, nothing changed. I took him to our animal hospital which should give me better results and answers than a normal vet. They did an X-ray, and they said his joints are extremely healthy, no signs of arthritis or hip dysplasia. 

They did a final check on his back, and realized that he had slight pain in his lower back when pressing on the spine. The doctor said it might be (DM) degenerative myelopathy (spelling). They said that an MRI would give a better answer. I agreed to an MRI. The MRI showed that Luka has some disc compression in his neck, He also has some disc compression in his lower back, but it wasn't too bad and would heal up. They stated that because of the compression, there are nerves that are being pinched thus causing a delay in his hind legs functions. The doctor basically said that Luka is just getting older and that disc degeneration is normal. They said that they can maybe rule out DM at this stage because Luka is not the right breed to have DM. They doctor said that we should first try medical intervention and strict rest for about 6 weeks. The doctor was very relaxed about Luka's situation and says that he would not put Luka in any disease category. Now, what I want to know is if Luka is on his way to a good recovery of he is showing the following signs:

he has deep pain sensation in his hind feet. He is wagging his tail in a normal manner. Walks fine (has a slight delay in the hind legs). Potty sessions are normal and he has no trouble peeing. He doesn't show any signs of pain in his neck (head isn't in an abnormal position due to pain). He stands in a normal way (when standing for a long period of time, he does lower his back slightly). When lying down, his back legs do shake slightly. He is not dragging his feet in  any way. When i turn his hind feet upside down, he corrects them. Takes about 3 seconds, but he does correct them. He isnt walking in a funny manner (wobbling) and he doesnt fall over his own feet. When he turns around, there is a slight delay, but nothing abnormal.

Luka is currently on GeriVet which is a multi Vitamin for geriatric dogs. He was on MobiFlex LD- for a while. He's on Vitamin E 500iu's as well as 1000 Omega 3.
75mg Rimadyl twice a day, 
Nerontin, 
His food consists of Heels J/D Joint mobility reduced calorie. He eats and drinks normal. the reason he was on MobiFlex, was because my previous VET, told me Luka has Arthritis. Which, as mentioned above, was confirmed negative by the animal hospital. makes me so mad actually, because Luka was on 100mg Rimadyl for an entire year, and MobiFlex LD PLUS Petcam because of the apparent arthritis. Ive kept him on MobiFlex LD though, because i feel it assist the joints in any case. Even though he does not have arthritis, i feel that the joints should still stay healthy and lubricated.

The doctor says healing from the compressed disc is a very long shot, which I don't understand. Having mentioned all the positive signs above, doesn't this mean he is doing well and may heal? (he will be on strict rest for 5 more weeks). And what i also want to know is if you look at the signs mentioned above (good and bad, if he does infact NOT have DM). bare in mind, the doctor that gave me the results specialize in neuro surgery. So he is not just a normal VET.

I know i should be using the doctors advise, and stick to that. But i am slightly paranoid having read all the forums on DM. So i would like you opinion.

(Im trying my utmost best to make Luka's quality of life even better)



Looking forward to hear from all of you.





 

I'm a bit slower than I was when I was younger, but I don't take drugs to get me up to speed. As long as he's not in pain and is happy, I wouldn't give drugs...the long term effect is worse than being a little slow because of age. The vets make a fortune diagnosing old age problems, but have yet to find a cure.
He's a beautiful dog.

Luka is a beautiful boy. I'm sorry you are going through this ordeal with him. I'm doubtful that he has DM, based on his breed, the results of the tests he's had done and what the neuro vet has told you.  Even so, I  would suggest joining the DM forum to find out more. The people on the DM forum are very knowledgeable and although Luka most likely doesn't have DM, they will be able help you with suggestions as to how to manage Luka if/when his condition becomes worse. If a dog is disabled due to DM or other issues, they are assisted with their mobility in pretty much the same way, although I would suggest always consulting with your vet first. Hopefully Luka's condition will never require you to  have to assist him. You may also want to consider laser therapy and/or acupuncture. Both of these can help manage pain. http://www.mzjf.info/Forums/index.php. 

My dog, Shelby, recently passed away from DM. DM typically comes on very slowly. The first sign on my dog was wear of the nails on her left hind paw. DM typically affects one leg first. She eventually lost control of the left leg as the other leg began to weaken as well. She eventually went down completely in the rear. Then, I saw weakening in her front end and finally the start of diaphragm issues, which is when we had to say goodbye to our precious girl. This all happened over the course of 2 years and 4 months. Shelby was a pretty typical case, although according to my vet the progression with her was slower than with most dogs and she lived longer as well. Maybe it was due to the multiple treatments we tried- we tried everything possible to save her, but we lost the battle. I do know there are dogs that have lived even longer than Shelby, but so far no dog has won the battle against DM.  So, I hope some of this was helpful to you.


Luka is lucky to have someone who cares about him so deeply. I sure hope his condition improves. I wish for you and Luka the very best. 
 

Agree with Joanro above;  stop the Rimydal.  Bad stuff with horrible side affects.  But of course really no one on a forum can diagnose what your dog has or does not have.  What I would do that I have found very positive with my now 14.7 year old samoyed girl is resistance training.  Have them stand on all four feet squarely.  pick up one foot at a time and hold up for a few seconds, maybe 10 seconds.  Put down then pickup another foot and keep rotating until you have done all fours.

Next I give spinal massage, go down each vertabrae from back of skull to tip of spine or over the butt.  Slight pressure.  Then I teach them to push against my touch, using your fingers and holding fingers at shoulder, have dog push against and hold for 10-30 seconds then massage afterwards.  Do both shoulders, then move to hip area.  Massage hips then do the same resistance,  Put fingers on side of hip, have dog push against and hold for 10-30 seconds then massage.  This is resistance as well as strengthening.  I cannot believe how this has helped my older girl.  Also sort of aligns them back up if they have tweeked themselves.  Also NO jumping.  I would find a doggy chiropractor for initial adjustment then continue with resistance/strengthening as mentioned above.  Also walk up and down hills is excellent.  At this point in your dogs life it is about strengthening what he has.  I also use when needed a herbal/natural liquid formula made strictly for arthritis.  Manufactured by VetionX listed on line.  Have had great results with it along with their pain medicine which I keep on hand.  NO side affects.  Good luck  Nan

Starchar on this forum gave me the above information as she did have a girl shepherd with DM.   But these are excellent strengthening exercises.  I try to do them for my girl daily or several times per day.  They will learn to come to you as they love it.  BOL  Nan

Thank you, Nan, for suggesting the massage and exercises. I came back on here to add that info and you already posted it! Thank you! 

 

He's the wrong breed and his symptoms don't fit DM, but they do fit pinched nerves. He's probably been painful from the compressed discs for some time and if you didn't do x-rays, then of course your vet would assume arthritis and prescribe something for it like rimadyl. It's the most obvious choice for an older painful dog like yours. If you didn't ask for x-rays to definitively prove the arthritis, it's not your vet's fault - it's yours. Now that you have done a more thorough workup, you can make changes to his care.

Follow your vet's advice, which seems to be working as your dog seems to be showing some signs of improvement. It's unlikely he will fully recover from a compressed disc, but the antiinflammatories and pain meds will help.

The only thing I will say is that is a TON of Vit E to be giving a dog that size. I would be asking the vet to reassess the omega 3s and the Vit E amounts. Maybe he's got a good reason for it and he can share that with you.

What great advise. Thank you everyone!

Just one comment to greyhoundgirl. I appreciate your comment, but I would just like to clarify the arthritis part. My first vet DID do an X-ray which I requested accompanied by blood tests. And that vet claimed Luka had arthritis. They actually also said he had a slight crack in his one joint. So I decided to get a second opinion from a more expensive and well know animal hospital here in SA. Where I requested another X-ray AND MRI. No arthritis and no sign of a "crack". And to be clear, the first vet actually told me to give luka 100mg rimadyl AND Petcam. Which is deadly! Those two should never be used together. So I do infact think that it IS the first vets fault because they assumed something that was not there and had Luka on 100mg rimadyl for an entire year plus they suggested Petcam which completely shocked the doctors at the animal hospital.. If that vet suggested an MRI or even more tests
A year ago, we might have caught the disc compression earlier and I would have treated it earlier.

I will ask the doctor why he suggested 500iu's of Vit E and 1000 omega 3.

Regarding the rimadyl. Because of the compressed disc, we need to get rid of the swelling and inflammation as it is pushing against his spine as indicated by the MRI. I agree that the rimadyl is not that good.

Thanks again for all the comments. Nan and Starrchar, great info! I am keeping Luka calm and rested for 4 more weeks. Hopefully by then, we can stop the meds. I will then again, take him for Hydro thrapy to build muscle and keep his joints healthy.

I massage Luka's leg muscles every night and I do passive range of motion exercises with him. I brought a soft rubber brush that slides over my hand (they call it a massage glove for dogs), which ill use to run down his spine and back up. Hope this helps with the nerves etc? I also run the brush up and down his legs after the massage. Also built Luka a ramp that goes down the two steps we have outside. I'm doing everything I can for that disc to heal and for the nerves to regenerate. The doctor said its all about time. And him being relaxed for these few weeks.

Nerves can take months, even a year to heal and regenerate. But with restricted motion of the spine, scar tissue forms and can heal the injured area.

You sound like a very thoughtful owner and it's clear you are trying to do everything possible for your special boy.

Hydrotherapy can be very helpful. Does he like the water a lot? If not, be very cautious and insist on being there. My sister's Border Collie had ACL surgery and was taken for hydrotherapy. She hates water and I told them she did. They said she would be fine. Well, she freaked out and tried to lunge out of the "pool" and it caused a major setback in her recovery.

Please keep us posted on Luka's progress.

Hi Starrchar.

Unfortunatelly Luka dislike the water. He enjoys the the under water treadmill though. The company where I take Luka for Hydro, usually first puts the dogs in a spa bath, where the massag the muscles etc! Getting Luka in and out of that bath Is a mission because he usually tries to jump. He's scared of the pool as well. So what ill do is, finish the few weeks left for him to rest. Then take him to Hydro where ill request only the treadmill and Light theraphy. I'm thinking the light theraphy will work great on the compressed disc and damaged nerves.

The only problem I have is, if the nerves are still damaged after the 8 weeks, and he still has weakness in his hind legs. Then I'm not sure how Hydro will help. Maybe someone here can give me advise. The reason I'm saying this is because, the doctor said the muscles will not gain strength from Hydro if the brain cannot communicate propally with the hind legs. But, I'm sure that after 8 weeks, there should atleast be some improvement?? I mean, if Luka kan walk almost normal at this point, then surely the muscles are infact working.

Very quick drive-by suggestion.  Since he needs to be on Rimadyl for the inflammation and pain, Luka should also be on a milk thistle extract supplement to help protect his liver function.  Discuss this with your vet, and you can either purchase a product that's specially formulated for veterinary use, or you can just purchase a good quality milk thistle extract sold for human use.