a twist on the "will an untrained dog protect" neme - Page 1

we have all seen the countless threads with a million different opinions, the youtubes and the full commercial television productions addressing this question so no need to re-visit.

what i would like to know is related but not the same - we all talk of genetics etc in the bite itself and in the work in general and can we agree that many trainers today are actually better than most trainers have ever been in the past  imo (not including myself) so better training science can/does make, decent dogs look great, average dogs look decent and crap dogs look average....

what about a completely untrained dog, will it bite and how would it bite (with a credible threat) - not a physical threat putting a dog in survival mode, a mouse will bite if it has to so assuming common sense here.

hope this question makes sense.

Well, our one shepherd has no working dogs in her background, she's nothing but a backyard dog honestly. The one time we tried seeing what she'd do, she thought a "bad guy" was trying to hurt me, she just grabbed the leg and held on. Didn't fight, just held on? Another time an "intruder" entered the yard, she went after an arm, but I called her off before she actually grabbed on to the person. The time a horse a horse trampled me, and she went berserk trying to keep it away from me while I was on the ground. First time I was driving a car, she tried to jump through the drivers side window, which I'll never understand what she thought that would do?? I'm certain my "untrained dog" would protect me from anything, but she has a terrible idea of what a threat to me is (a car??) and would have done MUCH better with proper training. She's now six, and has been being worked with more around everything I can think of, and is much better :) no more "intruder" scares. 

Not much, but that's my untrained dog (untrained in protection, obedience is great) :) thought I would share. I think I'm just lucky with her, as we have other shepherds that would have watched me die and be perfectly fine or turn and run away, no questions asked, lol. 

I had a cur dog when I was just getting into dog training and protection.  I took him to class just to see if he would do anything.
Put him on the chain and I just stood next to him.  He was a little unsure what to think about the helper and never did bark.  However, when the helper acted like he was going to attack me...all bets were off and he nailed him.   Poor dog, he thought he was in trouble, however, as soon I said 'good boy' he was quite proud of himself.
I took that dog with me everywhere and felt sure that if a real threat presented itself, he would take care of it.

Fish, birds, squirrels, cats, dogs, etc all have instincts. Courage is another question. I have been attacked by a blue jay and my father a bass. Another bird released itself on me, but I was too wise to look up to identify the species.

The purpose of training is about control and relationship IMO.

Sure, there are dogs that will protect when their owner or property is perceived to be under attack without training however it is more dangerous for an owner and or the dog if it is not trained. IMO.

Also I feel most whom do not train there dogs to appropriately act within these situations do not have a clear understanding of the dogs behavior and or the "why". These owners also often confuse and misidentify what the true intentions of the dog are.

Just because a dog is ferocious behind a fence in his yard doesnt necessarily mean he is territorial. Just because a dog will lung at a stranger with teeth when he perceives a threat doesnt necessarily mean he/she is protective or will go the necessary lengths to protect.  etc....... can go on with many scenarios.


IMO to have a fully reliable dog that will protect it must be trained, tried, and tested.   Even then there is still a small room for question until you see the dog take its first live bite.


edit : trained by someone whom has a clue.

and as far as how an untrained dog will bite cant be answered simply. looking at most fear aggressisive dogs you see a lot more slashing and re-gripping than a confident dog that wants to crunch or different breeds that react different ways within the grip. I for one couldnt give a definitive answer as ive seen many dogs react many different ways.










 

Sam, would not argue with anything you said, however it was not really about what the thread was asking, again, totally agree with what you said.