Degenerative effects of Inbreeding - Page 1

The German Shepherd Dog, as an animal is not diferent from other animal, including wild animals, in terms of the need of genetic diversity to be healthfull. Ecologists and geneticists work very hard in order to preserv the number of individual of a specimen to save it from those effects of having a few genes in the population. IF THERE IS NOT SUFICIENT GENETIC DIVERSITY, THERE MUST BE DEGENERATIVE PROBLEMS. In order to win a show we are loosing the control against this problem, everybody uses the same lines, those that are going well in the German shows, and generation after generation the process keeps going, where in will lead? Cant we see those effects from now? What would be the real percentage of displasic dogs in the show line? We just dont turn in most of the displasic results and even like that the displasic population is so high! What would be the percentage of displasics in DDR bloodline (less afected by the show effect) and how about EAST GERMANY WORKING BLOODLINE? Shouldnt we start to think about a way to prevent health problems in the name of a EMPTY BEAUTY? The workability is the real beauty! THE BREED DOES NOT NEED SO MANY INBREEDING, IT HAS SUFICIENT UNIFORMITY TO GIVE UP THIS METHOD, WE HAVE TIME TO CHANGE. LETS MAKE A SERIOUS WORK ON HEALTH (hips...) AND TEMPERAMENT.

I KNOW SOME WILL MAKE CRITICS BUT THOSE WORDS ARE NECESSARY! WE MUST WAKE UP TO THIS SILENT PROBLEM THAT MAY CAUSE BIG EFFECTS. GENERATION AFTER GENERATION, GENERATION AFTER GENERATION. RESTRICT INBREEDING!

I'm not a critic of your comments. You had made some excellent points.

Jose I also have no problems with your comments. The GSD current breeding goals are reaching the limit and the extremes are creating alot of health problems including HD. Beauty sells and as professional breeders we need to keep the beauty but not at the expense of health and temperment. Without those two elements you have nothing. I feel sorry for the torment GSD's must endure having HD or any of the other health or nerve problems.

Jose and Dessertranger -- i think this is the most important and most needed post after all the years on this site -- i think our GSd is likr the good Lord -- they love us for not juat who we are but also for what we as humans can become --- that is unconditional -- but unlike them -- we use our GSDs as commodoties -not all uf us -- ..thee are many that value then for the relationship , companion and the working partner they truely are -- we have failed them in what we HAVE ALREADY done to them as a breed !! and i to am to balme -- not for poor breeding [ without being arrogant -- i would put any of my dogs right next to the best working and the VA dog in the world] -- but i also bout into this notion of having the VA progeny -- because i bought these dogs .. and more than 20 in my lifetime -- i have contributed to this breeding outlook /over linebreeding by being part of the market. -- but now am sewriuosly dropping all my memberships to the GSD prganizations because it see the many hypocrisies .. the greed .. the ego --- they think because a dog is korklasse and Sch it ,makes for a breed worthy GSD -- what a bunch of hype -- first if you cannot see youirself the gsd and if it fits the standard -- then why in the world are you even breeding ?? i don't need the Sv to tell me my dog's structuire is this or that !! and Sch --please give me a break -- that is the most luaghable protection routine i have ever seen .. not to mention all the paper tiltes just o get the dog bred or to get the dog to show high end -- i think you two are correct -- hope all the other seriuoss ..true to heart breeders concentrate more on what is important in the animal world and start to think about breeding heal;thy GSDs foremost then worry about how it shows -and one mopre point --Why show for postion -- i hear all my acqyaintances state " you show a dog so others can see what stock there is --please folks -- again stop the hypocrisy -- then i ask -- why the place postions -- someone wants to see my GSd ., the genetics -- teh ok -- i can present the dog -- but i don't want any 1st /2nd or third place -- my dogs are never going to be for sale --don't even offer me $50,000.-- or 100 K -- that's the difference of a breeder and a wholesaler

Jose you always have something real to say about the breed. Allot of us feel the same way about the breeding and comformation of current dogs. If a person cannot look at a showline or American line and see it's posture is not helping it's health or working ability, they are crazy. Blindly following the SV or any other organization is just crazy. They always have their own agendas. Pictures say a thousand words. Go back and look at the dogs who actually worked sheep and police work. Look at the dogs who are going strong at 14, not the dogs who placed VA1. The working ability is what makes the dog so loved and beautiful, in my eyes anyway. Breeding away from that, is just very sad to me.

I just wanna thank you, for sharing this topic this is why i love the gsd database to learn gain knowlge is imporant.i hope more people will share there knowlge and bring more good stuff like this for us to read .thank you all...

Thank you Jose" I applaud you......you can title and show a gsd and get kkl all u want, but u had better wake up and see that u can title a mutt in Schutzhund and we had 2 in Houston in the club, but do u breed that mutt and create more mutts.....someone looked at my pedigree which all are out of my beginning bitch and her daughters and three boys I added later and they were out of titled dogs and she said oh u have no titled dogs for two generations back ur ruining the sv breed, I wont sell u a pup because y dont breed titledd dogs.....ok Ill go to houston and get the titled Mutt that did Schutzhund and breed him to my title pup in wASHINGTON and I will have two titled dogs......get the drift I do;;;;;it takes many years of study watching your pups and discarding the undesirable breeding pairs because they dont match up good....the pups u produce go to good homes and while u strive to achieve show look or work look, the dog that work=s all day and night and only gets a K-9 degree will stand alone for years, along with the sheep herders and the cattle dogs, and we better wake up and really try to not get political about these Germans...Just because Pirol v Enclavehof was great performer doesnt mean he thru good pups with who he was bred to, and if he was bred to several different lines and still threw bad hips , where does the fault lie, him or the female......on on on where do we start....??I dont know ,,,and its not with Vitamin C...its with the breedings....................

But for sure you will be "prosecuted" strung up and burned alive if you breed without titles and KKL !! I am living proof of that. I have specific goals in mind such as suggested by you and yellowrose, But apparently those goals and specific desired traits that I wish to see strengthened are hog wash without Titles and KKL cause without Titles and KKL my dogs are "supposedly" NOT Breed worthy. You might have the best dog in the world and No One will recognize that dog for who he is without a piece of paper. Way naive and more over on the Ignorant side to adhere to such non sense. I've seen some "champions" KKL and Titled dogs I would not be interested in breeding to, maybe I don't like the way it ducks when I try to pet it, maybe I don't think that dogs body type would fit with my dog, there could be 101 reasons, but first and foremost I will look at the dog before I will look at pieces of paper that tell me the dog is qualified for breeding. A "champion" that once took a swipe at a judge was still crowned champion ! I would never even consider breeding to that dog I watched this dog repetedly become anxious and nervous every single time the judge approached, in my opinion the dog had NO nerves, But hey it was still crowned champion therefore according to most here, this dog is a dog I should be breeding to hhh ? So long as it has KKL, SchH titles, and Championships it's breedable, regardless the temperament, hip scores, and heck who cares about any other type of health issues especially those issues passed along by the act of breeding alone. If the dog has a SchH 2 it must be clear of any venerial diseases, and a young bitch must be clear too right ?? my point is KKL and SchH titles and Championships are not the end all, they give you some reffernce but that is absolutely all they do. They do not guarantee BREED WORTHINESS and anyone who would be bullied into that philosophy is being led by a bull ring down the path to the kill house.

The big public claims for a dog that could represent the working dog, like rimtimtim, the dogs from the police or from the army. They look for a German Shepherd that can defend their homes. As a Show line breeder i had people who had buy my dogs saying, THE DOG IS PRETTY, BUT WHEN DOES HE GET BRAVE TO TAKE CARE OF OUR HOME?I had to say, some just never get this quality! Now I breed for temperament and healthfull hips! Those are noble goals! I had win too many trophies and besides been happy for the victory I didnt think I was helping the breed! Now I feel good, the dogs are coming with better temperaments, I can see it, and I hope with good hips, I will know only when the time comes. I would like to see more breeders working for the breed! Taking the workability as the bigger goal in mind!