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by MichaelCox on 18 June 2013 - 19:06
Hello everyone,
I'm hoping you can give me some insight into these two harnesses they are similar in looks but there are a few differences. This harness is not for agitation it's to be used more as a switch to say "okay I'm working now" then when we get home I'll take the harness off.
The thing that sticks out to me the most is the placement of the handles the EliteK9 one is under the main strap and lays flatter whereas the Redline K9 one seems to stand up. My thoughts are the handle could get hung up on something (branch). I did conceder getting one of the light weight leather tracking harness but I'm not sure about that.
Redline K9 one: http://www.allk-9.com/patrol-dog-harness-desert-tan-p-896.html
Elite K9 one: http://www.elitek9.com/Tactical-Patrol-Harness-w_-Cobra-Buckle/productinfo/MH016/
Any opinions are appreciated.
I'm hoping you can give me some insight into these two harnesses they are similar in looks but there are a few differences. This harness is not for agitation it's to be used more as a switch to say "okay I'm working now" then when we get home I'll take the harness off.
The thing that sticks out to me the most is the placement of the handles the EliteK9 one is under the main strap and lays flatter whereas the Redline K9 one seems to stand up. My thoughts are the handle could get hung up on something (branch). I did conceder getting one of the light weight leather tracking harness but I'm not sure about that.
Redline K9 one: http://www.allk-9.com/patrol-dog-harness-desert-tan-p-896.html
Elite K9 one: http://www.elitek9.com/Tactical-Patrol-Harness-w_-Cobra-Buckle/productinfo/MH016/
Any opinions are appreciated.
by clc29 on 18 June 2013 - 19:06
Hi Michael,
I couldn't get the Elite K9 link to come up and show the harness that you are talking about.
As for the All K9 Harness......
I've used a harness of similar design for trailing my SAR dog and didn't like the way the chest strap laid when my dog was pulling into the harness. The handle was a PIA in heavy brush and branches so I cut it off.
A friend of mine uses this harness.....
http://www.ruffwear.com/Web-Master-Harness_2?sc=2&category=1131.....for her trailing dog and loves it. I've never seen her dog get hung up on anything. Another nice feature is the way this harness fits her dog....the strapping design allows for even distribution of pressure points across her dogs chest. The only down side is it doesn't really have anyplace to sew on the SAR patches.
I haven't really found "the" perfect trailing dog harness for myself...so I'm designing one.
Cheri
I couldn't get the Elite K9 link to come up and show the harness that you are talking about.
As for the All K9 Harness......
I've used a harness of similar design for trailing my SAR dog and didn't like the way the chest strap laid when my dog was pulling into the harness. The handle was a PIA in heavy brush and branches so I cut it off.
A friend of mine uses this harness.....
http://www.ruffwear.com/Web-Master-Harness_2?sc=2&category=1131.....for her trailing dog and loves it. I've never seen her dog get hung up on anything. Another nice feature is the way this harness fits her dog....the strapping design allows for even distribution of pressure points across her dogs chest. The only down side is it doesn't really have anyplace to sew on the SAR patches.
I haven't really found "the" perfect trailing dog harness for myself...so I'm designing one.
Cheri
by MichaelCox on 18 June 2013 - 20:06
Thanks Cheri, you just confirmed my thoughts on it.
by Hundmutter on 19 June 2013 - 06:06
Assuming you are just getting it for 'normal duties' with you
and haven't taken up SAR work or anything else involving
heavy undergrowth, I'd think they would both be equally
effective for the purpose of a "Let's go to work" switch you
describe. You could try and get them on approval, if you
can, because the points about the fit are important and every
dog is a slightly different shape, so for instance a breast strap
that is fine on your dog might be rubbing uncomfortably on
someone else's dog or vice versa. You'll find that out easier if
you can try them on him before you buy. Otherwise, I would
suggest the Elite one will go on looking tidier for longer, being black;
that light 'desert tan' of the Redline one looks like it might get
grubby fairly quickly ?
and haven't taken up SAR work or anything else involving
heavy undergrowth, I'd think they would both be equally
effective for the purpose of a "Let's go to work" switch you
describe. You could try and get them on approval, if you
can, because the points about the fit are important and every
dog is a slightly different shape, so for instance a breast strap
that is fine on your dog might be rubbing uncomfortably on
someone else's dog or vice versa. You'll find that out easier if
you can try them on him before you buy. Otherwise, I would
suggest the Elite one will go on looking tidier for longer, being black;
that light 'desert tan' of the Redline one looks like it might get
grubby fairly quickly ?
by Hired Dog on 19 June 2013 - 06:06
Sir..
First, my thoughts are that the dog should be ready to function, harness or no harness. It should always be in "condition yellow", regardless of a piece of equipment that will cue it. I dont like bad habits, so I dont train them and the dog needs to function while "naked" or wearing body armor, day or night, hot or cold, well, you get what I am saying.
Another thing, the less crap the dog wears, the less crap a would be bad guy would have to grab the dog by and possibly harm it. A flat collar held by velcro would be something I would put on the dog....go ahead and grab it during a fight....
The point I am trying to make is that it should be either your voice or the "bad guy's" actions that bring the dog into the mode you want, not a piece of equipment. Good luck!
First, my thoughts are that the dog should be ready to function, harness or no harness. It should always be in "condition yellow", regardless of a piece of equipment that will cue it. I dont like bad habits, so I dont train them and the dog needs to function while "naked" or wearing body armor, day or night, hot or cold, well, you get what I am saying.
Another thing, the less crap the dog wears, the less crap a would be bad guy would have to grab the dog by and possibly harm it. A flat collar held by velcro would be something I would put on the dog....go ahead and grab it during a fight....
The point I am trying to make is that it should be either your voice or the "bad guy's" actions that bring the dog into the mode you want, not a piece of equipment. Good luck!
by Slamdunc on 19 June 2013 - 10:06
Michael,
I agree with Hired Dog. I am not a big fan of a "special" collar for this or I only use this harness and leash for "this." Dogs understand commands, rituals and body language. I do not believe that a dog needs a special "agitation collar or harness" to recognize it's about to do bite work, or be prepared to "turn on" into aggression. My dog does know that when I take out a thirty foot line and a harness he is going to track, not so much because of the specific equipment but the ritual involved. My dog works on a flat leather collar, he will turn on into aggression, do narcotics detection, track, obedience, building searches, etc all on a flat collar. It is not so much the equipment, but the command and body language given to the dog. Since you are training a personal protection dog, IMO, the dog needs to work off of your commands and body language, not the collar or harness the dog is wearing. I have found it is much easier to have good comfortable equipment on the dog and then tell the dog what is expected. Your training should involve "handler protection" where the dog reacts with out command, but you must be careful with this and extremely vigilant. You need to train an "alert" command or a "watch him" command along with a hand signal to target the dog. You will also need to train a "bite" command. The dog should respond to any of these commands regardless what equipment the dog is wearing, where the dog is or who is around. You will also need a command to "turn off" the dog and have him stop any aggressive behavior instantly and focus on you or a person he is targeted on. The "turn off" command should cause the dog to stop and await your next command.
I really do not like the idea of the dog being on ready to go all day, that is a stressful way to live. I prefer a calm, confident dog that is ready to go in an instant, 0 - 100 mph in a second when needed and relaxed when not needed. The dog should also go from 100 - 0 in a second when told. You need a collar or harness that gives you positive control over the dog. A harness is ok, if it is comfortable for the dog and can not be used against the dog in a fight. I never use a harness with my dog in apprehension situations, that is just me.
Of the two harness, I like the redline K9 better. I think that would be more comfortable for the dog to wear for extended periods of time.
JMO FWIW,
Jim
I agree with Hired Dog. I am not a big fan of a "special" collar for this or I only use this harness and leash for "this." Dogs understand commands, rituals and body language. I do not believe that a dog needs a special "agitation collar or harness" to recognize it's about to do bite work, or be prepared to "turn on" into aggression. My dog does know that when I take out a thirty foot line and a harness he is going to track, not so much because of the specific equipment but the ritual involved. My dog works on a flat leather collar, he will turn on into aggression, do narcotics detection, track, obedience, building searches, etc all on a flat collar. It is not so much the equipment, but the command and body language given to the dog. Since you are training a personal protection dog, IMO, the dog needs to work off of your commands and body language, not the collar or harness the dog is wearing. I have found it is much easier to have good comfortable equipment on the dog and then tell the dog what is expected. Your training should involve "handler protection" where the dog reacts with out command, but you must be careful with this and extremely vigilant. You need to train an "alert" command or a "watch him" command along with a hand signal to target the dog. You will also need to train a "bite" command. The dog should respond to any of these commands regardless what equipment the dog is wearing, where the dog is or who is around. You will also need a command to "turn off" the dog and have him stop any aggressive behavior instantly and focus on you or a person he is targeted on. The "turn off" command should cause the dog to stop and await your next command.
I really do not like the idea of the dog being on ready to go all day, that is a stressful way to live. I prefer a calm, confident dog that is ready to go in an instant, 0 - 100 mph in a second when needed and relaxed when not needed. The dog should also go from 100 - 0 in a second when told. You need a collar or harness that gives you positive control over the dog. A harness is ok, if it is comfortable for the dog and can not be used against the dog in a fight. I never use a harness with my dog in apprehension situations, that is just me.
Of the two harness, I like the redline K9 better. I think that would be more comfortable for the dog to wear for extended periods of time.
JMO FWIW,
Jim
by MichaelCox on 19 June 2013 - 12:06
Okay, that's settled, no harness. I appreciate all the feed back.
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