black and red or sable? - Page 1

Dumb question, I'm not sure what color Blitz really is. He's registered a black and tan, but his color look like the dog, Kimon, that Silbersee posted as an example of a sable. He has a black saddle but the hairs in that saddle are banded (agouti) not all black from stem to stern. Any easy way for me to tell if he's black/red/tan or sable? He's a Flick g-son. Not a big deal, I'm just curious. When I think sable I picture a dog like Molly's Eagle. I didn't realize a sable could have a saddle. Thanks!

Sorry, I meant Silbersee's dog, Bosko.

Flick only produced sable puppies, if he was bred to a sable. A lot of black and tans lack a truly black saddle due to color dilutions and fading pigment. A sable puppy is born light (often with a black stripe or ridge on the back) and gets dark as he ages. A black and tan is born with a lot of black (legs are usually tan, so are the markings in the face and under the tail) and will "fade" until he has a saddle. What is your dog's pedigree? Are one of the parents sable? If not, when your dog is certainly not a sable. Sables out of conformation lines do have a saddle.

P.S. If you are wondering about my husband's male "Bosko vom Huehnegrab", he is so red that he is always mistaken for a deep black and red from a distance. He also produces that. Just look at his daughter Henni vom Silbersee. I have not seen Henni for months but she is even darker red than her father. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/451163.html Bosko's mother, Jasmin vom Haus Dexel is one of the highest placing sable females in Germany. If you enlarge her photo, you can see the rich sable pigment she has, and yes, also a saddle.

Blitzen Like Silbersee said one parent has to be sable and when you got your dog if he was a puppy he would have been light with a black strip down his back (usually). If you don't know his background, and if you got him when older, get him wet. When a bl/rd or tan gets wet their black stays black. On a sable you can really see the undercoat, it looks kind of funny.

I have a Flick g-daughter who at first appears black and tan but the black hairs are also banded. She was bred to another dog, black and tan ,with sable in his pedigree also. They produced 1 sable pup out of the litter. To me I would say Blitz probably is sable- by definition- because it is black over another color not black the entire length of the black hairs. Banded hairs define sable.

I don't know if either of Blitz's parents is sable. They are both on this board, Urr v Trienzbachtal and Panama v Beluga. Blitz's color is very similar to both of them, especially his dam's. I didn't see him til he was 5 weeks old so not sure what color he was when he was whelped. I guess his breeder knew what color to reigister him, so he's probably black and tan. Thanks for the information.

gsdlvr2, the banded hairs were what confused me in the first place. I read somewhere that they are associated with the sabling gene. But, I don't beleve all I read on the net. After I looked at his sire's photo again, I don't think he's sable, but his dam may be, she'a a Flick daughter. If both parents need to be sable, then he can't be. He's neutered, so not a breeding prospect. I'm just a dog nerd who is trying to understand color inheritance and it's not easy LOL.

Both parents don't need to be sable to get a sable but one of them must be....

Blitzen, check out Arlett.com. There is alot of great info about sables and how they are used in breeding and how they produce etc. Technically the banded hairs equal a sable dog.Technically but not always the color is determined at birth. In my case with my Flick g daughter appears black and tan at first glance,she and her parents are registered black and tan. Whether they really are,who knows.She is sable { banded black hairs } Often sable dogs are registered as black and tan but are not. Trailrider makes a good point about when the dog is wet ,they do look different than a true black and tan dog. If you want to e mail me privately I will send you some interesting pictures of an "atypical" sable puppy soon after birth.