Is This Not Wrong?????? - Page 1

I have been searching websites looking for a pup for a friend and ran across a site that has a litter of pups. I scanned over the pedigree and the Sire of this litter is the Sire of the Dam....Isnt it wrong to breed a Sire back to one of his pups?

I know that it sounds alarming on the surface (and violates S.V. regulations-if they matter at all in this case) but this type of very close inbreeding has been used successfully by very experienced breeders who seek to enhance the qualities and type of the stud male by selecting the best daughter who represents those qualities. It's not my thing as I am purely an amateur. But in the correct hands with the established knowledge I see where it can be a very useful tool to reinforce good quality and type. Or, it could have been an accidental breeding. Those happen. Bob-O

Let me see if I understand this right!! The father of the litter is also the father of the mother to the litter? If that is the case, I myself would not do this, but there are people out there that do. I had a guy come and look at my pups and wanted a male to breed back to my female. I said are you kidding me!! I don't think so. I heard some peolpe will do it because they think it will keep the conformation, color and/or drive going, but I wouldn't allow it myself.

No it is not wrong if it is a calculated breeding for a specific purpose. From strictly a genetic standpoint, it is used exactly like Bob-O says. To consolidate the genetics and qualities of the stud dog. The downside of inbreeding is that it consolidates and enhances both the good and the bad. But if you do it right and are very selective with the pogeny, you can bring the bad to the surface and breed away from it while still mainting the good. Breeding is a science that should not be influenced by human "taboo"

Yes Kelly, father back to daughter breeding. myself I would not do this either. I too have been ask to breed one of my pups back to my sire and lost a sell of a female pup because I said no for no amount of money would i do this......Thanks Bob-O I do understand what you're saying.

The breedingrules for German shepherds say NO, it is not allowed. And I should never do it, because I'm sure, you will get several problems with the progeny in temperament and size. Why it's not allowed for human being?

I understand this method was very used at the beguining of any breed, it includes the German Shepherd and all that was done with HORAND VON GRAPHAT to help to stablish the breeds type, and it did, in circunstances were there was no other dogs able because the breed was just starting. Toguether with some quality comes all the hiden defects, that would not apear if this method wasnt used, recessives will come toguether easily and the breed wont gain with that, a lot deffects will just appears in bloodlines that we even think they were present. THE GERMAN SHEPHERD TODAY DOES NOT NEED THAT! THE BREEDS TYPE IS STABLISHED, AND WE CAN FIND GOOD STUDS TO GO FORWARD WITH THE QUALITY WE EXPECT WITHOUT USE THIS PRIMITIVE AND DIFICULT METHOD. Thanks you all, I hope you respect my opinion, and I understand you are searching a way to improve. THATS JUST MY OPINION, I MAY BE WRONG TOO! WHO KNOWS! MARRY CRISTIMAS!

This brings to mind the case of Lief Noriswand, who was the product of half siblings mating. He was a popular and somewhat successful stud until DNA analysis corrected his pedigree and the truth came out. This illustrates that close linebreeding can be done without ill effect, but the breed club is compelled to limit such activity lest it grow out of control and all hell breaks loose. Chances are that this breeding is NOT one of those that are planned carefully by knowledgeable breeders. I would avoid it. Best Wishes, Jonah

It brings to mind Raffles in the Arabian horse world, it was done successfully with him but he was a rare exception of the Crabbet blood.Would I do this with my GSD'S or recommend it?,no. If it is carefully calculated by very experienced breeder with specific goal ? that is different. I would not condemn it,

Here is an example of how this type of inbreeding is benificial: I have a potential stud dog that I think is the greatest dog in the world. He is everything I could ever hope and pray for. From a breeding standpoint there is really only one thing that matters. What does this dog produce? Let's talk about something everyone with a GSD lives in fear of....HD (of course you would be looking at the total package but for the sake of this example I will focus on one trait) I breed my male and keep the best female, (the best two would be better) and breed them back to him, @ 1 year I OFA prelim. Say 25% HD in progeny. Now I breed the best female from this litter back to my male again @ 2yrs of age (OH MY GOD!). What will we have? A very consolidated genetic version of our stud dog. We wait 1 year and OFA prelim this litter..... We will have almost all good or all bad hips. Either way, within 3 years we know exactly what the hip production of this stud dog is. If it is good, breeding the heck out of him will improve the hips of the breed. If hip production is bad, you do not breed the dog further(I wouldn't)or be extremly selective to breed to only bitches proven to produce good hips to prevent progeny from being a carrier of the gene. If you don't know what is in the genes, you can't improve on the good and eliminate the bad...... Now the philosphical question...If the hips were all bad, did we create this or just bring what was already there to the surface?